convergence....PIC INTENSE

[Vinkman]

I set my guns to -650 so the bullits get there before leaving the guns.

That's funny. 

[BulletVI]

Well  Have found that for wing mounted armament its better to bee at 300 yards or closer but for nose mounted armament 300 yards to 800 yards is possible. Remember the final target you are shooting at is moving thus not all the rounds hit so to quate a BofB pilot i saw on the TV

"Gun convergance good for attacking bombers but attacking fighters HHMM thats a hit or a miss that one is "

at the end we all have a personal convergance point that suits us but not realy in the air fighting it out with another plane thats a bit of skill and pot luck for 100% of your bullets hitting the plane from the same burst.

[Vinkman]

you're talking about the pee38 shots?

 i left it on auto pilot. each time i moved the target out, i moved the  sight to the left or right. i took each screen shot just after firing each burst, so it could be seen where they're hitting.

I've played with the target before. My understanding is that the center of the target is always lined up with the centerline of the aircraft. There may be a way to move the target left or right, but I don't what it is. Did you move the target left or right? I'm not sure how moving the sight would make the rounds land in a different place on the targets. I thought only moving the plane or the target could do that.

Sorry if I'm missing the point of the post, but I couldn;t tell if it was a 'where to set your convergence' post, or a 'hey the P-38 convergence is messed up' post.

[CAP1]

I've played with the target before. My understanding is that the center of the target is always lined up with the centerline of the aircraft. There may be a way to move the target left or right, but I don't what it is. Did you move the target left or right? I'm not sure how moving the sight would make the rounds land in a different place on the targets. I thought only moving the plane or the target could do that.

Sorry if I'm missing the point of the post, but I couldn;t tell if it was a 'where to set your convergence' post, or a 'hey the P-38 convergence is messed up' post.

ok......i think i understand.

when you use the dot target command, it places the target to your north. it will always be north. you type the distance you want it at.....so for instance if i wanted it at 200 yards, then i'd type <.target 200> and hit enter. minus the brackets of course.

 i left the planes on auto, and let them accelerate to cruise speed. i wasn't climbing or anything. when i moved to the sides, i used rudder trim to move, and let the plane stabalize.

[hitech]

The auto pilot will effect the spread of the bullets vs flying by hand.

Especially with wing mounted guns the firing will yaw the plane slightly with the autopilot rudder will correct for. It won't be huge but a small difference in patterns and spreads will result.


HiTech

[CAP1]

The auto pilot will effect the spread of the bullets vs flying by hand.

Especially with wing mounted guns the firing will yaw the plane slightly with the autopilot rudder will correct for. It won't be huge but a small difference in patterns and spreads will result.


HiTech

whoa!!

 i didn't know that. i thought i was making it a bit more of an accurate test by using the auto pilot.....thanks!!!

[Vinkman]

ok......i think i understand.

when you use the dot target command, it places the target to your north. it will always be north. you type the distance you want it at.....so for instance if i wanted it at 200 yards, then i'd type <.target 200> and hit enter. minus the brackets of course.

 i left the planes on auto, and let them accelerate to cruise speed. i wasn't climbing or anything. when i moved to the sides, i used rudder trim to move, and let the plane stabalize.

Ok so that explains the left/right off center. Thanks.

So why is there an offest High/low with the 38?  Convergence sets both horizontal and vertical at the same time. So to get the bullets to cross the 0,0 axis at 650yrds, the gunds are set to aim high so bulletdrop over 650 will bring them back to 0,0. If you set for 650 Convergence and move target to 200, the pattern should above the centerline.


By the way HiTech if your reading this thread still, being abole to set them separately would be a nice feature. I will post in wishlist. 

[CAP1]

Ok so that explains the left/right off center. Thanks.

So why is there an offest High/low with the 38?  Convergence sets both horizontal and vertical at the same time. So to get the bullets to cross the 0,0 axis at 650yrds, the gunds are set to aim high so bulletdrop over 650 will bring them back to 0,0. If you set for 650 Convergence and move target to 200, the pattern should above the centerline.


By the way HiTech if your reading this thread still, being abole to set them separately would be a nice feature. I will post in wishlist. 

what you're saying, is exactly what i thought. the other thing i didn';t expect was to see the gunsight below the horizontal center line on the target.

 i may mess with it more later, but i used all of my available playtime yesterday doing those things.....tonight, if i can manage, i'm gonna get into the game........

[Vinkman]

what you're saying, is exactly what i thought. the other thing i didn';t expect was to see the gunsight below the horizontal center line on the target.

 i may mess with it more later, but i used all of my available playtime yesterday doing those things.....tonight, if i can manage, i'm gonna get into the game........

I will check it out as well in a few planes tonight. 

[BulletVI]

The auto pilot will effect the spread of the bullets vs flying by hand.

Especially with wing mounted guns the firing will yaw the plane slightly with the autopilot rudder will correct for. It won't be huge but a small difference in patterns and spreads will result.


HiTech

So thats why i imput some left rudder when firing from the Spit

[mtnman]

The nose-mounted guns are mounted below the eye-level of the pilot.  The line from the pilots eye, through the sight, to the target is the LoS.  The bullets start out below the LoS (but not much), arch up through the LoS, and "fall back through it at 650 yards (with a 650yd convergence).

It won't be very noticeable though, because you're only looking at a starting point a foot or two below the pilot's LoS, and a "top" edge only a few feet above the LoS.  The ballistics on the P38 is pretty dang "user friendly".  Also keep the scale of the target in mind; the center ring is 20ft in diameter.  Some of those nice groups are actually spread out over an area the size of my garage.  They're not nearly as concentrated as they appear (mainly due to dispersion).

The sight elevation on the target is base on speed, and how that speed effects the required AoA to maintain level flight at that speed.  A slower speed will require a higher AoA, so will make the sight move up on the target (because the nose will be higher for level flight).  A faster speed requires a lower AoA, so will result in the sight being lower on the target (because the nose will be lower for level flight).  The target always stays at your level, the nose just doesn't always point to the same place...

It doesn't really matter though, the bullets aren't going to the center of the target, they're going where the sight is.

This link shows my screen shots form the P38, for comparison.  I took pains to adjust my speed so the sight lined up with the center of the target, and stayed there.  Not that they're "better", they may just offer a different perspective.  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291146.0.html

[CAP1]

that helps a lot. that also explains why my pipper was lower in the 38...i was about 40 mph faster.............

[Vinkman]

I will check it out as well in a few planes tonight. 

Checkit out in the K4. Worked as it should. Long convergence at short targets produced hits over the centerline. Will check other planes when I have more time.

[CAP1]

Checkit out in the K4. Worked as it should. Long convergence at short targets produced hits over the centerline. Will check other planes when I have more time.

if you can, do pictures sir.

 the way i did the ones i posted, was to take the shot, then type the target distance and convergence into the text buffer,  do alt s. this places the pics in my aces high folder as .bmp files. then i open thm with paint, and save them as .jpg....then upload them to photobucket to post them here.

 if we can make this help some of the newer guys, then it'll be a good thing. 

[Vinkman]

if you can, do pictures sir.

 the way i did the ones i posted, was to take the shot, then type the target distance and convergence into the text buffer,  do alt s. this places the pics in my aces high folder as .bmp files. then i open thm with paint, and save them as .jpg....then upload them to photobucket to post them here.

 if we can make this help some of the newer guys, then it'll be a good thing. 

Forgot about Alt S thoguht I had to do screen capture and I haven;t re-loaded since my software upgrade. OK will do.