Author Topic: P38 vs 109  (Read 1876 times)

Offline a4944

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P38 vs 109
« on: October 08, 2010, 09:30:15 AM »
Any tips on flying the P38 against the 109?  Any techniques to get the most out of a P38?  Assume the P38 does not have enough E advantage to zoom.  What can you do if you see a 109 closing from your 6 to try and reverse the advanatage?

Thanks,
Chog

Offline CAP1

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2010, 10:13:05 AM »
Any tips on flying the P38 against the 109?  Any techniques to get the most out of a P38?  Assume the P38 does not have enough E advantage to zoom.  What can you do if you see a 109 closing from your 6 to try and reverse the advanatage?

Thanks,
Chog

GENerally, if they're coming from alt, i try to force an overshoot. i normally have troubel when i get bounced though.

 from a co-alt merge, you can establish an alt advantage sometimes, as long as you have the speed. it's not good to get low and slow against them. especially the "F". they'll tear ya up. i'll try to think of more when i sit down for lunch/.
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline grumpy37

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2010, 10:29:29 AM »
MMMMM  looking forward to cap revealing his secrets........    :devil
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Offline JHerne

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 10:41:01 AM »
Chog, dunno if you're aware of it or not...just stumbled back onto it myself after a couple of years...

http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm

Lots of useful information.

 :salute

J
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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 10:42:38 AM »
bah.. never mind

« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 11:36:27 AM by Dichotomy »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 11:16:39 AM »
pee38......

you MUST use the vertical. this doesn't mean to bnz the guy to death. it only means that you cannot follow about 90% of the things you'll fight through a flat turn. keep some speed.
 if you're bouncing a con, and he turns hard, level above him, bleeding some speed, and see what he does. once he';s straightened out, you can go after him again.
 you can also throttle back, go below, and although you'll be too fast, again, keel an eye....you can still get back up above him.

 the key is to have more "E" stored than he does.

 if you're closing on him co-alt, and he turns hard(they all do), then do a high yoyo....pull up, as you loose speed, you'll turn with him. although you may be a bit too slow now, you're still in good position, as once he changes his direction, you simply push the nose over again.

in the "J", try to take the fight uphill if you can. keep him turning against his engines torque if you can. i believe the 109's torque to the right?

 in the main arenas, i love roping guys. it's fun, as they ALL think they have the "E" to lift their nose a liiiiitle more to get the shot.....and they stall, just before my "J" does. timed well, when my nose drops, they're right in my sights.
 that doesn't work so well in here, as you lose them without the icons.

although i've been told i'm too fast, i get my best results merging at 330mph or so. i don't know the cornering speed of a 38, but when i watch my films, i seem to average in the 220mph to 270mph range in my successful turnfights.

 flaps.....they are SUPER DUPER important. you can get 10 degrees out at 250mph. be careful with them though. they will slow you down quickly, and get you into trouble.  you need to kind of get the feel for them in the fights. i'm almost constantly working flaps, and throttle throughout a fight. i often find myself coming downhill with 10 or 20 degrees of flaps out. i kind of hate the auto retracting feature because of this, as i've bellyflopped  when they retracted.
 throttle management is very important too. in spits zeeks and hurris, i've found i can firewall it, and do pretty much anything. in the 38, you can't do that. those allisons will keep you going too fast for turns.

 bear in mind, that i think i still suck in the 38, and learn somethign new every time i fly her.......but i hope this helps.
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Shifty

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2010, 11:31:37 AM »
Chog,

The P-38s have been eating my lunch in the vertical. I've been flying the 109 exclusively lately trying to learn the bird. I've always heard how good they are in the vertical, I see P-38s matching anything I can do vertically constantly. Of course I'm a relitive newbie to the 109, I've ignored it for years in favor of the 190. I might not be the best one to offer advice but I do know I'm losing to 38s in the vert constantly.

<S>

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Offline CAP1

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 11:34:35 AM »
Chog,

The P-38s have been eating my lunch in the vertical. I've been flying the 109 exclusively lately trying to learn the bird. I've always heard how good they are in the vertical, I see P-38s matching anything I can do vertically constantly. Of course I'm a relitive newbie to the 109, I've ignored it for years in favor of the 190. I might not be the best one to offer advice but I do know I'm losing to 38s in the vert constantly.

<S>

you gotta get us slow, and low. that's where most of us have trouble. granted, i've seen guys fly the 38 like a spit......but i think that's not most of us.

 i love fighting low.....and i have a couple screenies go go up tonight.....but once you get us slow, it's much much harder for us........
ingame 1LTCAP
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline JC67

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 11:54:24 AM »
well last night the vert worked against my 109 very well..i was miss judging  E states all night, couldn't get a thing going, but usually  i love when a 38 goes straight up, on most occasions  it puts them right in my sites. I guess that's the trick,  know you have the E over the 109  and it works beautiful  :O


You cant shoot anyone down if you aint in the air.
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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 11:56:47 AM »
38's are great when people first start flying them.. nice big fat targets for me... when they get a handle on them?  The tables turn rapidly.  I think that's next on my bucket list... or the 190.  Cap I'll be hitting you up for some help when I get in one. 
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline CAP1

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 11:58:28 AM »
well last night the vert worked against my 109 very well..i was miss judging  E states all night, couldn't get a thing going, but usually  i love when a 38 goes straight up, on most occasions  it puts them right in my sites. I guess that's the trick,  know you have the E over the 109  and it works beautiful  :O

yea, i learned that the hard way agianst you the other night....i don't go straight up now..... :devil
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline CAP1

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 12:00:06 PM »
38's are great when people first start flying them.. nice big fat targets for me... when they get a handle on them?  The tables turn rapidly.  I think that's next on my bucket list... or the 190.  Cap I'll be hitting you up for some help when I get in one. 
no problem. i try to help when i can.........none of us got to where we are without help...... :aok

i flew the pee47 d11 last nigfht for a couple of flights. she seems to turn fairly nicely, but no vertical whatsoever...at least not what i'm used to.
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 12:24:34 PM »
I call it the P47 the flying brick... we get them about once or twice a year in FSO... I look at it and think 'nice coffin'.  Lack of a skill set yep... 
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline a4944

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2010, 12:30:19 PM »
When you guys say vertical do you mean like a snowboarders pipe where you go up to the rim and then reverse or do you do full loops?  

I like the FW190A5.  If you have E, you can do the snowboarder type vertical engagement.  It's beautiful to flip it at the top with an E advantage and have a P40 or 38 dangling right below you.  I suppose I can try to fight the P38 the same way.  The most trouble I have fighting the 38s when flying Axis is misjudging the E state and not being able to keep with the zoom.

In here, sticking with a fight, the longer the fight goes the worse it gets for me, when I'm pretty much flying anything USAAF.  USAAF planes seem to excel with teamwork but can be tough with single 1 vs 1 engagements against the 109s after the the initial move after the merge.  Any tricks for reversing a bad situation?  Do you stick with the vertical when a 109 is getting an advantage or do transition to a rolling scissors and try to force an overshoot?  

Chog

Offline CAP1

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Re: P38 vs 109
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2010, 12:58:40 PM »
i always seem to lose when i get into a rolling scissors. i try to use yoyos to make me able to turn with the bad guy.
ingame 1LTCAP
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