Author Topic: Angela Merkel  (Read 5315 times)

Offline Tupac

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2010, 08:27:49 AM »
Yep, I can think of several things to do to people that are a tax on society.

Did I mention she has 2 misdemeanors for drug posession?
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2010, 09:04:30 AM »
I just found out that an extended family member who is 16 is now pregnant.  The parents, who have 6 other kids that we (the working class) are supporting, are planning a baby shower. 

When asked if we were going to attend, I bluntly told her that if we did I would gift wrap a hanger, scissors, and a box of condoms since I just cannot condone teenage pregnancy.

A child may be a gift from (above) but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together is a gift from Home Depot.
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Offline JHerne

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2010, 10:26:40 AM »
Wow.  :uhoh

My sister-in-law just adopted a baby. I'm a new uncle, wooo-hooo. Mother was a 17-year old rich kid from NYC, parents took her to upstate NY to have the baby, as they didn't want to tarnish the young girl's private school reputation.

While I realize the what we're discussing, good or bad, a tax burden or no, let's not forget we're still talking about a baby.

This is my new niece Joanna...6 days old today!



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Offline CAP1

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2010, 10:42:02 AM »
Wow.  :uhoh

My sister-in-law just adopted a baby. I'm a new uncle, wooo-hooo. Mother was a 17-year old rich kid from NYC, parents took her to upstate NY to have the baby, as they didn't want to tarnish the young girl's private school reputation.

While I realize the what we're discussing, good or bad, a tax burden or no, let's not forget we're still talking about a baby.

This is my new niece Joanna...6 days old today!

(Image removed from quote.)

J


congrats sir!!   :aok
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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2010, 10:42:56 AM »
Congrats Jherne  :aok
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2010, 12:42:29 PM »
Here let me put it in perspective:

This was pulled off of Craigs List in the San Francisco Area about 1 minute ago...filed under help wanted - skilled trades.

Remodel contractor looking for experienced carpenter with cabinet installation, electrical, and plumbing experience. Must have vehicle, own tools and clean driving record. We have projects all over the greater Bay Area; some commuting may be required. Pay starting at $26.00 per hour. Please reply with resume and references.

Now let me refine it:

30 years ago as an "experienced carpenter" fitting the above description I made 30-35 bucks an hour cash...of course then I needed to only provide my own hand tools, and my truck was not turned into a company truck by act of my employment...

Now I am a contractor today and have been one for many many years...but the fact of the matter is that real world wages by real Americans over the last 30 years in construction has not grown one nano-meter...in fact it has fallen...

The double edge sword is that inflation has tripled the cost of living...and has had an even more deleterious effect if one factors in the cost of energy...

Clue: More and more people competing for resources and employment will drive the cost of resources up, the wage of the employed down...

Open Borders?...Multiculturalism?...Wake up...

You can keep it...it destroys lives and degrades the American experience...

< Thread Killer or Thought Provoker ?

Edit: Any employer who hires an illegal should be jailed for 10 years and his business should be forfeited...that will fix the problem quick...


Amen...
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2010, 12:43:39 PM »
I just found out that an extended family member who is 16 is now pregnant.  The parents, who have 6 other kids that we (the working class) are supporting, are planning a baby shower. 

When asked if we were going to attend, I bluntly told her that if we did I would gift wrap a hanger, scissors, and a box of condoms since I just cannot condone teenage pregnancy.

A child may be a gift from (above) but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together is a gift from Home Depot.

Amen to that, too...
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2010, 12:57:55 PM »
I just found out that an extended family member who is 16 is now pregnant.  The parents, who have 6 other kids that we (the working class) are supporting, are planning a baby shower.  

When asked if we were going to attend, I bluntly told her that if we did I would gift wrap a hanger, scissors, and a box of condoms since I just cannot condone teenage pregnancy.

A child may be a gift from (above) but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together is a gift from Home Depot.

Biologically, she's doing what is expected.  Considering we are, as a species only a couple hundred years past an average life expectancy of 30 years, social dynamics aside.....it's what we do, at the basal level.

The issue is that culture and civilization has moved at a faster pace than what our evolutionary rate is, which is contributing to our gross overpopulation. Females (and males) at 16 are still programmed biologically to conceive children, no matter how much pressure you wish to assert from a moral viewpoint. Considering 200 years ago, she would already be past "middle age" and still had to raise that child to self sufficiency (another 10-14 years), that is still how we're "programmed".


 It is only within the past 50-100 years that society (Western) has placed a value (need) upon waiting until later in life to conceive. Our biological roots are not so bound to those precepts. I have never seen the value of your high minded philosophic statements, eg ".....but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together...." in situations like you explained.  Instead of helping, you judge someone by the consequences of their actions.  Interesting viewpoint.  Maybe you were the one person at 16, I've never talked to, who always wore protection, never barebacked once, while the young lady was using a form of birth control as well.

 I've yet to find someone who was sexually active in the 15-25 year old range that didn't engage in some form of risk.

 But, it's very easy to find opinionated folks everywhere, judging others by their situations, and by the self-perceived "burden" they are to society.  It's both sick, and sad. :aok
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 01:01:54 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2010, 01:16:07 PM »
Biologically, she's doing what is expected.  Considering we are, as a species only a couple hundred years past an average life expectancy of 30 years, social dynamics aside.....it's what we do, at the basal level.

The issue is that culture and civilization has moved at a faster pace than what our evolutionary rate is, which is contributing to our gross overpopulation. Females (and males) at 16 are still programmed biologically to conceive children, no matter how much pressure you wish to assert from a moral viewpoint. Considering 200 years ago, she would already be past "middle age" and still had to raise that child to self sufficiency (another 10-14 years), that is still how we're "programmed".


 It is only within the past 50-100 years that society (Western) has placed a value (need) upon waiting until later in life to conceive. Our biological roots are not so bound to those precepts. I have never seen the value of your high minded philosophic statements, eg ".....but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together...." in situations like you explained.  Instead of helping, you judge someone by the consequences of their actions.  Interesting viewpoint.  Maybe you were the one person at 16, I've never talked to, who always wore protection, never barebacked once, while the young lady was using a form of birth control as well.

 I've yet to find someone who was sexually active in the 15-25 year old range that didn't engage in some form of risk.

 But, it's very easy to find opinionated folks everywhere, judging others by their situations, and by the self-perceived "burden" they are to society.  It's both sick, and sad. :aok


You been breathing that air from a tank too long, again?  :D

It is a true and valid point that you make, but......

using our brains to override our "instinct" is one of the main things that separates us from the animals.   :)

The problem is that, in today's society, most (I know not all) children born of a young mother, out of wedlock, are not cared for solely by the mother.  The problem is when society has to foot the bill to take care of them.  To me, it's not so much a moral issue (except the part where it is moral and decent to take care of a child that you helped conceive) as it is a logic issue.  

I hold it in the same regard regardless of age, race, religion, marital status, etc.

If you can't feed 'em,. don't breed 'em.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2010, 02:17:35 PM »
You been breathing that air from a tank too long, again?  :D

It is a true and valid point that you make, but......

using our brains to override our "instinct" is one of the main things that separates us from the animals.   :)

The problem is that, in today's society, most (I know not all) children born of a young mother, out of wedlock, are not cared for solely by the mother.  The problem is when society has to foot the bill to take care of them.  To me, it's not so much a moral issue (except the part where it is moral and decent to take care of a child that you helped conceive) as it is a logic issue.  

I hold it in the same regard regardless of age, race, religion, marital status, etc.

If you can't feed 'em,. don't breed 'em.

"Society" foots the bill to take care of all of us.  There is nothing around you that wasn't payed for by someone else.  At what point are the general rights afforded to you, restricted to others?  By placing assorted "worths" on individuals base upon your perceived values to society, you allow yourself to be, at some point, judged as well. You are in constant use of public facilities and funds.  Should you be judged, as to earn them, by someone else's metric?

Punishing the child of a young mother because the bill to raise it is "footed by society" is sick.  It is inhumane and completely illogical.  If you wish to tax the earnings of the parents, or of the entire families to recompense the "expenditure" required to raise that child as demonstrated from public funds.... that's one thing.  (not that I back another tax, but putting the kid back in utero isn't an option)

But to simply look at that person as a "societal burden" simply because the mother was 16 and made a poor decision as judged by you..... very narrow minded.

And we are no different from animals.  We live and die by the exact same principles governing the natural world.  Procreate, and pass on genes.  There is no other principle that each individual of a species is more driven by, instinctively.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 02:22:26 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2010, 02:27:59 PM »
"Society" foots the bill to take care of all of us.  There is nothing around you that wasn't payed for by someone else.  At what point are the general rights afforded to you, restricted to others?  By placing assorted "worths" on individuals base upon your perceived values to society, you allow yourself to be, at some point, judged as well. You are in constant use of public facilities and funds.  Should you be judged, as to earn them, by someone else's metric?

Punishing the child of a young mother because the bill to raise it is "footed by society" is sick.  It is inhumane and completely illogical.  If you wish to tax the earnings of the parents, or of the entire families to recompense the "expenditure" required to raise that child as demonstrated from public funds.... that's one thing.  (not that I back another tax, but putting the kid back in utero isn't an option)

But to simply look at that person as a "societal burden" simply because the mother was 16 and made a poor decision as judged by you..... very narrow minded.

And we are no different from animals.  We live and die by the exact same principles governing the natural world.  Procreate, and pass on genes.  There is no other principle that each individual of a species is more driven by, instinctively.

no one outside of family footed the bill to take care of me or my brother. my mother worked 2 jobs most of her life to pay for raising us, what she couldn't afford, my grandparents put in.
 she never took welfare, unemployment, or anything else from a social program.

 that's the kind of stuff that kids today are not doing when they bring a little life into the world. they have the kid, and then take whatever they can from the "free" programs.....which they're too stupid to know aren't really free.

 but i know you already know this is what was being talked about, and are just trying to be argumentative.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2010, 02:37:46 PM »
"Society" foots the bill to take care of all of us.  There is nothing around you that wasn't payed for by someone else.  At what point are the general rights afforded to you, restricted to others?  By placing assorted "worths" on individuals base upon your perceived values to society, you allow yourself to be, at some point, judged as well. You are in constant use of public facilities and funds.  Should you be judged, as to earn them, by someone else's metric?

Punishing the child of a young mother because the bill to raise it is "footed by society" is sick.  It is inhumane and completely illogical.  If you wish to tax the earnings of the parents, or of the entire families to recompense the "expenditure" required to raise that child as demonstrated from public funds.... that's one thing.  (not that I back another tax, but putting the kid back in utero isn't an option)

But to simply look at that person as a "societal burden" simply because the mother was 16 and made a poor decision as judged by you..... very narrow minded.

And we are no different from animals.  We live and die by the exact same principles governing the natural world.  Procreate, and pass on genes.  There is no other principle that each individual of a species is more driven by, instinctively.

Sorry, cannot agree.

When I was back in Hawaii, I worked 5 days a week pushing a broom, driving an old 1999 station wagon, paying for my own food, not eating out because the money isn't there, and generally living just above the poverty line. While I was working and earning my keep, the girls at my school who were at the same income level as my family were spending their time getting knocked up, and taking my tax money to live sometimes more comfortably than I do, while giving nothing back to society.

Yes, EVERYTHING around us was paid for by tax money. But here's the catch, most of us pay back into that system. Folks like you and I give back to society as a whole, be it through tax money, or public service. The majority of these welfare-fed teenage pregnancies however, never end up giving anything back to our society as a whole and just leach of of the public coffer. In my oppinion, if you conceive a child at a certain income level, you should receive ZERO welfare unless something outside of your control occurs to remove some of that income.

And before anyone starts with accusations of elitism, let me remind you, I lived barely above the poverty line. My family collected unemployment for a time, after the business my mother worked for for 20 years closed unexpectedly. We weren't trying to get a cheap ride, my mother spent every day trying to find a permanent job, and taking small gigs here and there in the mean time. And when that happened, we cut our spending, cut our expenses, I got a job, and no more kids popped up. We recognized that we could not afford to live at a certain standard, and by being responsible, we made it through with money to spare, and now I'm going to college and living comfortably, and she is making more money than ever before due to her own dedication and skill, not leaching off of the government as she could have done.



Oh, and I have to agree about jailing those who employ illegals. Remove the incentive to harbor them.

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2010, 02:48:08 PM »
People will 'hate' on immigrants that they feel won't integrate with their culture. This feeling is due to a sense that their failure to integrate is a vote of no-confidence in the prevailing culture. Beyond that, people will always find ways examples to reinforce their believes valid or not. As for Germany, here are the actually statistics of immigrants vs non- immigrants in terms of 'making something for themselves.



from this article
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,723702,00.html

Beyond that, its easy to point the finger at 'them', all to often 'them' is often a reflection of 'us'.

There are many immigrants in the USA who are successful and who are not criminals, pregnant teenagers, etc... We attract the best and the brightest from around the world and many immigrants have built the biz that we all take for granted within the US. For example, the founder of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang, who creates the video cards that makes many of these 3D games possible is a Taiwanese/Chinese immigrant.


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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2010, 02:58:22 PM »
People will 'hate' on immigrants that they feel won't integrate with their culture. This feeling is due to a sense that their failure to integrate is a vote of no-confidence in the prevailing culture. Beyond that, people will always find ways examples to reinforce their believes valid or not. As for Germany, here are the actually statistics of immigrants vs non- immigrants in terms of 'making something for themselves.

(Image removed from quote.)

from this article
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,723702,00.html

Beyond that, its easy to point the finger at 'them', all to often 'them' is often a reflection of 'us'.

There are many immigrants in the USA who are successful and who are not criminals, pregnant teenagers, etc... We attract the best and the brightest from around the world and many immigrants have built the biz that we all take for granted within the US. For example, the founder of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang, who creates the video cards that makes many of these 3D games possible is a Taiwanese/Chinese immigrant.




Because Germany is, the shining exampled for tolerance................
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2010, 03:14:20 PM »
Because Germany is, the shining exampled for tolerance................

What I found surprising by her comments was that I was (presumably false) under the belief that BECAUSE of what had happened 70 years ago, they were ashamed and thus the least likely to say something publicly like this. Contrast against what France is doing, deporting Roma people, if Germany did that, there would probably be enormous outcry from within the country, as it would open so many old sore wounds. I would be interested in hearing more from the perspective from the German players of this community.

As a side note, 'immigrants are the problem' attitude often coincides with global economic downturns, all over the world societies are placing the blame of economic issues on immigrents. For example, in Sweden, the Swedish 'Nazi' party won 8% of the vote in the past election.
 

Yeah, that's right, you just got your rear handed to you by a fuggly puppet!
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