M410 Armament?

[Lusche]

Thanks! I wonder how much was it used.

The PC 1000 was rarely used in general. It was to be used against concrete bunkers, iron bridges, armored ships and subterranean facilities up to 8m deep. Given the nature of most 410 bombing sorties as well as lack of a proper bombsight (minimum drop alt allowed for the PC 100 was 1000m), it could have been even rarer than total Luftwaffe numbers do indicate:

Average monthly usage 1943/44

50-70kg SC & SD bombs: 175,523
250kg SC & SD bombs: 32,720
500kg SC & SD bombs: 5,219
1000kg  SC bombs: 528
1000kg PC bombs: 91
SC bombs >1000kg: 69
PC bombs >10000kg: 51

[Krusty]

As an additional thought: I disagree with splitting up the -A and -B. They're almost entirely identical. Splitting a plane up only for its weapons load is something HTC has not done yet. I think it's a bit redundant. If we can get the options to fit on one, why not just have that one? We now have the option for CMs to disable specific weapons loadouts in the SEA, right? I think that, coupled with a smart weapons selection list, is all we need.

Splitting it up A vs. B just makes an arbitrary choice "this was a fighter, that was a bomber" when both performed both jobs. Imagine the whines and outcries coming to the forums "Where's my 30mm on the 410B!??!? It had them!" and "Why can't I have bombs on my 410A?" -- it might be humorous at first but it would get tiring.


I think (for me) I mostly don't like assigning a role to them arbitrarily. It would be like saying the P-38L can only have guns and the P-38J can only have rockets and bombs.

[Krusty]

The PC 1000 was rarely used in general.

I did not know any of that when I added it. I suppose it does not belong. Seems a very specific weapon.

[Scherf]

Thanks again Krusty. Those loadouts are for the A or the B? (Sry, didn't see posts above)

I think there's more info in the public domain for the A, although I don't think I've seen anything with a top speed for Notleistung (2750 rpm and 1.4 ata).

I dunno though, seems almost unfair not to let folks at least try the 50mm blunderbuss. That would mean a B variant, with some rough tweaking to be done by HTC for weight and the like. Engines apparently would be the same, as would fuel, etc.

Can't see the 50mm being used against GVs much, since the shells were, so far as I know, HE.

Hehehe, first copule of weeks will see a lot of "Flight of the Valkyries" stuff...

[Krusty]

I think that you could name the plane in-game either the A or the B. There were an additional 270 or so (my memory is fuzzy) Me-210s built by the Hungarians, but these were built to the 410 standard. They had the longer, deeper fuselage, the outer wing slats. I don't know about the dive brakes. They had similar horsepower engines. These were the "fixed" version of the 210, that had it continued according to plan would have been named the 210D. The 410 was really a name change for appearances' sake, so I've read, but was essentially taking the 210D improvements and repackaging them. These Hungarian "Me-210Ca"s would have had 7mm guns as did the 410A.

I'd suggest just naming if "Me410" in the hangar.
(edit: I mean no A, no B, just Me410)


Or, were you talking about something else?

[Scherf]

All sounds good to me, could lead to some neat Hungarian skins, don't know if we have one yet.

[Tupac]

The 75mm on the B25 is HE aswell, and its pretty effective

[Wmaker]

Me-210s built by the Hungarians, but these were built to the 410 standard. They had the longer, deeper fuselage, the outer wing slats. I don't know about the dive brakes. They had similar horsepower engines.

The Hungarian Me210Ca-1s had DB605s instead of the DB603s that Me410 had. There's quite a clear difference in power output (2x1475ps vs. 2x1750ps).

[Krusty]

I thought they had upgraded the engines?

Well, at least one of the webpages I got this stuff from was wrong, then. I was reading up on it earlier in the morning.

[morfiend]

IIRC they built 61 A models with the BK5 so if only an A model was made I can see a call for the 50mm.

 To answer about the Mk108's,yes in a waffen pack like the 4x20mm or 2x20mm. Some B models had 4x20mm internally,these usually had the 2x20mm waffen added and I think this is where the 8x20mm could be a possibility.Although I've only heard that Lt Rudi Dassow of II./ZG26 with permission from Obstlt Karl Bohm-tettlebach got his equipped with 8x20mm's instead of the BK5 which he hated.


   

[Charge]

While I agree that Bk5 seems to be a synonym with 410 that that itself would require it to be included to give a common presentation of Me410 I'd still prefer having 2xMk103s over it if we could only get the other.

I think that the problem with Bk5 was that while it was a hefty steel pipe it was still prone to all kinds of vibrations. In smaller scale it could vibrate in airstream and more so it could also develop sympathetic vibrations at certain engine revolutions which would certainly ruin the accuracy. Generally it is a good idea to put a long barrel to a gun to achieve decent muzzle velocities with the minimum of recoil but there will be problems if the barrel is not properly supported. As a hindsight I'd argue that by finding a proper length for the barrel or putting almost all of the barrel inside the fuselage, if not to reduce all the vibration effects, the remaining vibration effects could be controlled and much of the accuracy regained. But that is just the weapon accuracy. Flying in bomber's turbulence and taking aim from 1k+ out would still make a successful long range shot a stroke of luck.

Of course if properly modeled in game it would still be a decent weapon from closer ranges as, say, 800yds (with max range up to 1.5k) but Mk103s would be very good (if not better) from that range too.

BTW the picture text in one of Krusty's pics said the 210 used a 40mm Bofors. Interesting.

-C+

[Wmaker]

While I agree that Bk5 seems to be a synonym with 410 that that itself would require it to be included to give a common presentation of Me410 I'd still prefer having 2xMk103s over it if we could only get the other.

I think that the problem with Bk5 was that while it was a hefty steel pipe it was still prone to all kinds of vibrations. In smaller scale it could vibrate in airstream and more so it could also develop sympathetic vibrations at certain engine revolutions which would certainly ruin the accuracy. Generally it is a good idea to put a long barrel to a gun to achieve decent muzzle velocities with the minimum of recoil but there will be problems if the barrel is not properly supported. As a hindsight I'd argue that by finding a proper length for the barrel or putting almost all of the barrel inside the fuselage, if not to reduce all the vibration effects, the remaining vibration effects could be controlled and much of the accuracy regained. But that is just the weapon accuracy. Flying in bomber's turbulence and taking aim from 1k+ out would still make a successful long range shot a stroke of luck.

Of course if properly modeled in game it would still be a decent weapon from closer ranges as, say, 800yds (with max range up to 1.5k) but Mk103s would be very good (if not better) from that range too.

BTW the picture text in one of Krusty's pics said the 210 used a 40mm Bofors. Interesting.

Other thing that comes to mind is any kind of phugoid or directional instability which causes a swaying motion of steady amplitude. That would make aiming a nightmare. Anyways, I totally agree that MK103 far, far more versatile loadout off course. They aren't even comparable really. When AH gets Me410 and if the BK5 is included I might try it air to air couple times for fun but after that it's 4x20mm or MK103s almost everytime. But BK5 equipped Me410 was produced in numbers and certainly would be something that AH hasn't yet seen. In that context, I think it would be a welcome loadout.

That reference to 40mm Bofors sure is interesting. I have to admit that I know next to nothing about AAA guns and it made me wonder what the heck is Bofors 39M? Is it the same basic Bofors 40mm that was widely used in the war which was known in Finland as 40 ItK 38? A '39 model of it or something? I'm somewhat skeptical about it because I couldn't find anything on that specific model name and it seems that Germany didn't produce 40mm Bofors under licence.

EDIT/Doh! I should read better before I post. The caption talks about Hungarian Me210s, not German planes. Hungary indeed did produce Bofors' 40mm AAA gun under licence. Very interesting indeed!/EDIT

[leitwolf]

It also sez "in all likelihood, only four have been built" 

[Scherf]

Just had a look at one of my 410 doccos, it lists BK5 on the A1/U-4.

[Scherf]

BTW anybody who's collecting info on the 410 and wants any of the stuff I've managed to scrounge should PM me their email addys and I'll send along some pdfs which seem pretty useful.