Only F4U-1 in the world pulled from bottom of Lake Michigan

[JOACH1M]

Only issue is that it's deep

[ROX]

Some of the "ejects" and ditches were near center of Lake Michigan--roughly 600' deep in places.  Others were in 50' to 75' not far off shore, mainly rookie pilots trying to make the beach, but anyone who grew up there (not necessarily the pilots) knows those aren't Miami kinds of beaches, these are narrow beaches with plenty of sand dunes.  The lake back then was also about 1/2 mile smaller than it is now.  The lake has always had ebbs and flows back to the ice age, so in 2010, the beach is far more inland than it was in 1942 or even 1962 when I was a kid, so they are in slightly deeper water now.

Also, no records of exactly where each plane went down was kept.  If there was any log it would be the Coast Guard guys who were radioed to come pick them up.  Sometimes private boaters even picked up a pilot or two.  Don't forget usage of the Great Lakes for commerce boating (moving ore, coal, etc., was far more used than in this day of 18 wheelers.

These planes in the Great Lakes, and Lake Michigan especially, are in FAR better states than any plane that went down in warm salt water.

These planes are a gift.  Every one that can be retrieved and restored will be a fantastic memorial to the men & women who sacrificed so much in WWII.

[SgtPappy]

That one's pretty beat up. Doesn't look like it can be restored 

[BrownBaron]

Not this one, no. At the very least it will make a very nice (and low maintanance!) static display.

[ROX]

Exactly.  The vast majority of the recovered WWII birds are only being restored to the point of being put on display.  There's even one on display at O'Hare International.

[Vudak]

Yep, Lake Sabengo or something like that.  Considered war graves by the British MoD so no recovery.  Photos of the condition of one of the -1s shows it to be in remarkable condition considering the time down there.  Sad since the remains could be returned to the families.  Glad we don't do it that way in the US. 

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I've been to Lake Sebago before...  Never realized what I was visiting! Thanks for the education 

[Guppy35]

Exactly.  The vast majority of the recovered WWII birds are only being restored to the point of being put on display.  There's even one on display at O'Hare International.

A couple of the Lake Michigan Wildcats are now flying.

If they so chose, that -1 could be a flyer as well, but considering what a time capsule it is, it's better that they restore it for display at the Navy Museum.  They also have a recently recovered Helldiver that will fill a gap in their collection.  Their Vindicator is a Lake Michigan recovery and their Dauntless is also a recovery from the lake that was also an actual Midway veteran.

[Babalonian]

Yep, Lake Sabengo or something like that.  Considered war graves by the British MoD so no recovery.  Photos of the condition of one of the -1s shows it to be in remarkable condition considering the time down there.  Sad since the remains could be returned to the families.  Glad we don't do it that way in the US. 

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What a shame.  Has anyone on the state's side even tried reaching out to the pilot's survivors alongside with the BoB (English Air Heritage) museums to gain their support and aproached the British MoD requesting permision to recover?  Is such an endevour even possible?

[Babalonian]

Dude--take in a newscast or crack a newspaper once in awhile...seriously.

They have been pulling WWII navy aircraft out of Lake Michigan at a rate of about one a year for the last decade.  The last one was a F6F last year off Waukegan Beach.  There are WWII aircraft all over Lake Michigan, mostly in the lower half of the lake and especially numerous from Kenosha down to Lake Forrest or so...thickest area from Zion to Waukegan's South Beach.  There are also some on the Michigan side of the lake.

In January of 1942 the navy re-fitted a side-wheeled excursion steamer into an aircraft carrier for use in Lake Michigan.  The Navy wanted something that they could practice cv takeoff's and landings because they knew the war in the Pacific would be hugely a navy operation and came to the sad realization that they had extremely few pilots trained to do so.  Rather than have this done at sea, jeapordizing craft and crew to more U-Boat & Japanese sub attacks than necessary, they converted the steamer to a cv (without elevators or a sub-deck aircraft hangar) and it was "based" out of Chicago's Navy Pier...but the planes came from Glenview Naval Air Station (Glenview NAS was a long range anti-submarine aircraft base during the Cold War, but since decommissioned and is now apartment complexes) would take off there and land on the converted "cv".  When those planes were lost/crashed they called it a day and went back to Chicago.  "The Wolverine" (IX-64) and their might have been another one, not sure.

They would not only practice cv take offs and landings they would do live-fire strafing runs on stationary as well as towed targets, especially off the beaches of Zion, Waukegan, and Highland Park, IL.  Sometimes off the beaches of town off the Michigan coast as well.

Evidently the Navy didn't take "losing" these aircraft all that seriously because they made little or no attempt to locate or raise the wrecked aircraft during the war years.  When the compliment was lost to inexperience, engine problems, etc., they'd just fly in more navy birds.

It was scrapped in 1947.  Darned shame too...what a hech of a floating museum that would have been.   

I thought they converted the old steamer not because of percieved training volume incease, but because 1) Speed/time (quick conversion) and 2) they needed as many "real" operational ships on the front lines rather than be tied up for training.

[lyric1]

Yep, Lake Sabengo or something like that.  Considered war graves by the British MoD so no recovery.  Photos of the condition of one of the -1s shows it to be in remarkable condition considering the time down there.  Sad since the remains could be returned to the families.  Glad we don't do it that way in the US. 

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  You know if I ever was to die in a war grave situation. No matter what come get my remains

[Guppy35]

What a shame.  Has anyone on the state's side even tried reaching out to the pilot's survivors alongside with the BoB (English Air Heritage) museums to gain their support and aproached the British MoD requesting permision to recover?  Is such an endevour even possible?

There are folks working on it.  I know that there has been an attempt to trace the families.  Whether it comes to anything remains to be seen.  Clearly the aircraft is recoverable and you'd think bringing their dead home would be important.  Thankfully the US continues to go after recoveries of remains.

The aircraft itself is such a time capsule, I think for the history too that a recovery, even for the Royal Navy museum would be worth it with the added gift of returning the remains to the families.

It would seem a more fitting memorial to the pilots in my mind.

[ROX]

I thought they converted the old steamer not because of percieved training volume incease, but because 1) Speed/time (quick conversion) and 2) they needed as many "real" operational ships on the front lines rather than be tied up for training.

That was part of it.  Think of the amazing turnaround of the conversions.  Pearl Harbor in Dec '41 and the first of the two converted flat-tops was operational in the early Spring of '42.  Sure--they could have brought a real cv into the Great Lakes, but why go to all that effort?  The two converted would do fine for training in the months possible, usually from mid-March to Mid November...not bad, considering.  Better yet it was the CHEAPEST option.  Most of the flat-tops were already in the Pacific anyway, so why not mock-up something quick and cheap at home.  It's one thing to do big, fat, lines on a land runway and tell them that's all the pilots have to work with but it's still no where NEAR as realistic as the pitching, rolling, and moving of an actual cv (or faux cv) on water. 

Even today naval CV pilots train extensively at sea, sometimes every day.  And have done this before WWII.  But it would have been terrible back then to have a cv torpedoed and lost off the coast of San Diego or Hawaii by a lone enemy sub when they were only training.  It sure was nice the DoD had the foresight and mindset to construct the Great Lakes "flat tops" to give as many of the men as close to reality training in a place where if something did go wrong there was the best chance of survival with the least loss of men and ships.