Author Topic: Need for Localized ENY  (Read 3396 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2010, 07:56:32 AM »
How do you know that?  Did you buy the game from HT?  Did he appoint you his spokesperson?  Just curious how you know this to be a fact.

I've got news for you.  This isn't real life it's a game.  Hoarding other players makes the game not fun for them.  They log off and after awhile they've had enough and take their $15 elsewhere.  That hurts all of us who remain.  Less development, fewer people to fight, etc.

You're part of the problem in the arena's that's run so many of the old timers out of the game.  I'm not talking about slight numeric supeiority, I'm talking about what you describe; 75% of all players in one country hoarding together.

It's sad because this game used to be about guys who wanted to be the best cartoon fighter pilots in the virtual skies.  Now it's about how can we capture a base with the least chance of having to fight anyone.

Logged on last night.
Went to late war Orange where I saw a bunch of green guys hording two separate bases with no red guys. flew 1 flight with B-17's. Hoping that in time that would change. It didnt. Out of boredom I went to Late War blue.

Late war blue I saw on one end of the map we had a bunch of green guys hording a base with nly afew red guys. Other end of the map I saw a bunch of red guys hording a base with only a few green guys. Figgered I'd up and fight the larger numbered red guys. Took two flights.
First flight I ended up getting gangbanged. Made a decent fight of it, but a horde is still a horde and numbers eventually won the day.
Second flight I upped and ended up getting HO pilot wounded complete with insta total blackout (Another feature I absolutely loathe the way its modeled) by a P47 on climbout but managed to turn around and ditch in spite of the standard total blackout on final approach.

Logged off


whoopie

Forget zone eny limits We need base limits
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 08:00:25 AM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2010, 08:29:04 AM »
Logged on last night.
Went to late war Orange where I saw a bunch of green guys hording two separate bases with no red guys. flew 1 flight with B-17's. Hoping that in time that would change. It didnt. Out of boredom I went to Late War blue.

Late war blue I saw on one end of the map we had a bunch of green guys hording a base with nly afew red guys. Other end of the map I saw a bunch of red guys hording a base with only a few green guys. Figgered I'd up and fight the larger numbered red guys. Took two flights.
First flight I ended up getting gangbanged. Made a decent fight of it, but a horde is still a horde and numbers eventually won the day.
Second flight I upped and ended up getting HO pilot wounded complete with insta total blackout (Another feature I absolutely loathe the way its modeled) by a P47 on climbout but managed to turn around and ditch in spite of the standard total blackout on final approach.

Logged off


whoopie

Forget zone eny limits We need base limits

That's my experience more often than not. It subtly nudges you to join a large squad, or join the green blob. There are guys I like to fly with/hang with on vox, but being part of a dedicated group is a responsibility I've done before, and would just as soon not do again. It's enough of a chore just keeping Boxboy alive :lol) When a new guy joins AH, he sees exactly what Dred just described, gets turned off, or joins the whord out of necessity, which further exacerbates the problem
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2010, 08:31:54 AM »
So, I ask again (referring to the original post) how is ENY effecting a losing, outnumbered side a good thing for the game?

Respectfully,    :salute

Your a smart guy, you know the answer to the obvious.

If your side has ENY that side is outnumbering another side. Switch to the side that has lower amount of players and attack another side.  I can give you so many examples of how a side with ENY wastes the resource of having the numbers and also abuse it at the same time.  

If you have chosen to pledge allegiance to a chess piece rather be a part of the community that is trying to balance the game by switching sides, that's your choice.  There has been much discussion about this topic already, you have that option.  

I would much rather see ENY go away only if they capped equally the amount players per side, but that wont ever happen because players cant be responsible about the way they play as it is now.  

Going through life with blinders on.......... For the most part, nearly every single complaint about the game is done from a single point of view (or a side), without the added benefit or knowledge gained by switching to another side and getting an unbiased experience and a fresh perspective about not only the players but the dynamics of each side and fly against the side you normally fly with and see how they interact and tactics used.  What you once thought of being valid tactics you may see how cheesy and overkill it really is.
If you want to complain about something you think is broke, get the whole picture of the problem not just from your limited view (1/3) of things......   :rolleyes:

That's my experience more often than not. It subtly nudges you to join a large squad, or join the green blob. There are guys I like to fly with/hang with on vox, but being part of a dedicated group is a responsibility I've done before, and would just as soon not do again. It's enough of a chore just keeping Boxboy alive :lol) When a new guy joins AH, he sees exactly what Dred just described, gets turned off, or joins the whord out of necessity, which further exacerbates the problem

Unfortunately, this is the norm.  There is no attempt at learning anything, just what comes the easiest.  Join a Horde.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 09:36:19 AM by Dadsguns »


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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2010, 09:07:31 AM »
Switch to the side that has lower amount of players and attack another side.  

I think you missed the part where changing sides makes him part of the hoard because the other two countries aren't fighting each other.  Granted there's no ENY.
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2010, 09:16:00 AM »
I think you missed the part where changing sides makes him part of the hoard because the other two countries aren't fighting each other.  Granted there's no ENY.

I didnt miss any part.  Switching sides does not make him part of the horde.  Several things happen when you switch sides that your not accounting for.


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Offline NCLawman

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2010, 10:05:36 AM »
I didnt miss any part.  Switching sides does not make him part of the horde.  Several things happen when you switch sides that your not accounting for.

Dads.... the entire point of the thread is that MY side IS (or was at that time) the low numbers (accounting for the fact that A and B are fighting as 1 against C).  Switching sides simply adds me to the A or B which are already gang hording C.  How does that help?

The issue is NOT that ENY is preventing me from getting an uber plane to attack and vulch.  It is that the ENY was blocking the defensive side (lower number side) from actually being able to defend.

respectfully,

 :salute
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Offline NCLawman

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2010, 10:22:19 AM »

What you once thought of being valid tactics you may see how cheesy and overkill it really is.
If you want to complain about something you think is broke, get the whole picture of the problem not just from your limited view (1/3) of things......   :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, this is the norm.  There is no attempt at learning anything, just what comes the easiest.  Join a Horde.

You may consider reviewing my previous posts....   regarding the cheesy and overkill issue, that was exactly my point....   I don't want to be a part of the GREEN BLOB.  What is the fun in flying among 50 other friendlies.  When (or if) I return to base, I like for it to be out of fuel and out of ammo.  Flying for 2 hours in a green horde hoping to 'win the lotto' and be in the right place to get a vulch before the other 49 friendlies can, is NOT my idea of entertaining.  It is a waste of my time.  

With all due respect, I think you have misunderstood the point of my first post.  However, on the topic of your assumption, local ENY would help there also (though off topic from my initial post).  If 50 Bish are upping from one base to go on a hording mission, what's wrong with limiting the number of 'uber planes' on the attack?  Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating that, but the question is still valid.  It would assist in preventing the cheesy overkill for which you are denouncing.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 10:27:40 AM by NCLawman »
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Offline columbus

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2010, 10:56:14 AM »
If your side has ENY that side is outnumbering another side. Switch to the side that has lower amount of players and attack another side.  I can give you so many examples of how a side with ENY wastes the resource of having the numbers and also abuse it at the same time.  

lol if that happened there would be no hordes. if there as a mission (aka horde) your not gonna switch sides if you joined said mission. and chances are  you dont know your part of the horde til you get there and theres 30 of you and only 5-10 defenders.  and the 5-10 defenders are calling for help but everyone else is off furballing and doing their own thing. maybe even defending another base on the other front

Offline bj229r

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2010, 10:58:58 AM »
I didnt miss any part.  Switching sides does not make him part of the horde.  Several things happen when you switch sides that your not accounting for.
When 'A' and 'B' are hitting 'C', and not fighting each other...switching to 'A' or 'B' is pointless...attack a base by urself, die in ack? Mebbe if ya can get 6-8 guys to switch, and do just that...after ya spend an hour taking 2-3 undefended bases..THEN MAYBE the gang/horde will take note of you. (of course...said 6-8 guys are having to do that with 8-10+ eny rides, due to the afore-mentioned numbers problem) That's a lotta work just to CREATE a scenario where fun can occur
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2010, 11:04:36 AM »
Dads.... the entire point of the thread is that MY side IS (or was at that time) the low numbers (accounting for the fact that A and B are fighting as 1 against C).  Switching sides simply adds me to the A or B which are already gang hording C.  How does that help?

The issue is NOT that ENY is preventing me from getting an uber plane to attack and vulch.  It is that the ENY was blocking the defensive side (lower number side) from actually being able to defend.

respectfully,

 :salute

Sorry for the length but I will try to explain.

First I Completely understand you.
Its actually quite the opposite.
What you must get past is your side being outnumbered when your side has the ENY, let me explain.    

By switching sides and taking your squad mates, friends etc. etc. to the lowest numbers side (since your current side has eny there must be a lower side and will benefit you, the game, take away ENY for your side)  So if your on Side A: B and C is attacking A.  C has the lowest numbers side so join them and attack side B.

This will do several things:
1. Lower ENY for Side A.
2. Start a fight between side B and C.
3. Start a fight or Land grab either B and C for what they wont defend, you are sure to get their attention.
4. most of all you will see exactly what I have described.

You must ask yourself why does it happen?
When a side has the numbers it will naturally grab the attention of the other two sides because of what the tendency of how players are using those numbers as an advantage and how it can be so overwhelming (noe/ hording,combination of the two).

All three sides, some more than others, some less than others, overwhelmingly do not enjoy seeing a base stolen without a fight, period.  
When one is taken with little or no effort either it be by superior numbers or lack of defense in time, it invokes real life emotion when this happens of anger and aggression, basically pisses people off, (just a part of the game), but when its done as the only means of attack and over and over again it really pisses people off and will draw much more attention from those that want to defend against it and consider it a challenge to beat them back, every one of us has that instinct in us if you want admit it or not.  

Good example is Side A has 80 players B and C have 50 each.   Side B will at some point realize that side A is noe'ing base after base or attacking a base for capture.   Side B will start to defend against the attack and will discourage side A for the moment.

Side A will move to Side C to suprise noe them for a take and they too will realize at some point that stealing base after base has gotten their attention.  Side A gets discouraged and shifts to side B again for another take, and the cycle begins back and forth between B and C.

At some point or moment both sides will be focused completely on the W A M part of the game trying to defend against what soon becomes ALL or None of a side, you will begin to see side A use nearly all of its resources to noe a base which now has completely captured the attention of both sides to fight off this now super horde.  Hence you get both sides attacking the 1.  

There are more dynamics involved here and are not all inclusive and I chose not to disclose the remainder of them, but this is what exactly happens from my observations.  

I used to be in your shoes where I only saw it from 1/3 rd of the view point and was probably one of the biggest advocates for your argument at the time, now that I have seen it from all three sides I no longer hold that position
I have always been an advocate of getting the facts on your own and not what someone else tells you are the facts or at the least form an opinion with as much information as you can gather.  
Many players in this post and several others really dont hold any truth to many of their arguments or observations since they only have 1/3 of the picture, your not going to get the whole story by reading just the cover.  

If your in a squad that has pledged allegiance to a side, you will have to come to a point and decide what is important to you, your loyalty to a side that will limit you and the game on many aspects, or move on and grow.
There is just so much to this game and what it offers that many are blind to it.

This is my opinion and was formed from my experience, I have no fancy charts or graphs.  Sorry.  My use of the word You, it implies you in general as the reader.
  
 :salute
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 11:14:33 AM by Dadsguns »


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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2010, 11:10:25 AM »
logged into LWB a while back with the uteris map. Rooks were steamrooling nits b/c they were leaving our front undefended so all the noobs made things worse by bombing their HQ.Meanwhile bish who had the bigger #s were steamrolling us. Common pattern each and every day. Seems you spank one day and get spanked the next.Switching sides wont do any better. If you are on the recieiving end, go to a peaceful section of the map and try to turn a blind eye to whats going on anywhere else { this is where you get pelted by those armchair generals for not contributing to the war effort.} Somedays its worse than others but things go full circle
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Offline Zwerg

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2010, 11:17:47 AM »
I have an idea.
It's not elaborated at all.

It would combine 2 game dynamics: ENY on country level and Earned perk points on the individual level.

An extension in the clipboard would show a dialog like:

=============================================================
Your country is penalized by ENY:

If the players of your country sacrifice

x thousand perk points within the next x minutes(count down), the following planes and loadouts will be available during the next x minutes

In the bucket: x thousand perk points
Stille needed: x thousand perk points

plane/loadaut
----------------------   
xxx/yyy
.
.
.


If the x thousand perk points are delivered in the announced time span, the conversion perk points to reduced ENY is executed.
Otherwise the perk points are sent back to the individuals.
=============================================================

« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 11:33:03 AM by Zwerg »

Offline jamdive

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2010, 11:19:21 AM »
Eny didn't stop hording, split arenas didn't stop hording, nor did the dumb idea that was implemented (and thank God it only lasted a weekend) where we had to take bases in a specific order, nor did radar changes that made the map look like a goat rope. I'm sure there are a few more failed attempts to satisfy the baby without a pacifier.

Making all these changes pisses more people off than the actual horde does. I'm still waiting for them to implement the Tom Tom so I can get around the towns.


Offline Zwerg

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2010, 11:29:45 AM »
deleted (wrong button) hehe
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 11:31:21 AM by Zwerg »

Offline Tilt

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Re: Need for Localized ENY
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2010, 12:00:29 PM »
I am generally in favour of  some sort of base limit that (when exceeded) influences the numbers of player who subsequently spawn from that base.

1)It could be a hard limit that simply stops further spawning until some of the numbers already spawned have landed, ditched bailed or died.

2)It could be a local base  ENY influencing the type of rides now available, which would increase as numbers spawned above the  base limit exceeds.

3)It could be a perk modifier which increases the perk cost of all rides now available, which would increase  as numbers spawned above the  base limit exceeds.

4)It could even be something else like fuel or ordinance rationing. Such that full fuel or heavy ordinance is not available until numbers spawned return to the base limit.

Hard limit is absolute and denys the player any choice except what other field he must now choose.

ENY limits choice by reducing the choice of rides available

Perk price allows choice but at a potential cost (to those who have perks to afford it) and limits choice to those who have very few perk points.

Resource rationing permits full choice of ride but may limit choice based upon endurance and ordinance.

Which ever "modifier" is used it then has to overcome some additional challenges.

It must be able to over come situations where a side has very few bases to the point where the player cannot choose another base without being penalised by the modifier. Therefore the maths setting the initial limit should take into account the number of bases (their types) in relation ship to the number of players a side has at any point. And/or uncapturable bases should be unlimited.

It should not penalise Tank town or Fighter towns  bases where there is normally a greater number of local players. Again we see a need for some bases having special status.

A risk when initiating base limits (of any kind) is that they induce a local stalemate by over balancing the sides to an extent that neither ever has sufficient numbers for a victory condition. When considering this we should look to our terrains. If side A has two bases in proximity to side B's single base then we see that even with the base limit side A has a potential numerical superiority of 2 v1. IMO this is quite right. However if side tried to roll a single path thru side B's territory then side B would have massive potential  local superiority around any base along this "string" of captured bases.

In this way base limits incourage frontal war fare / combat / gameplay spread along fronts.

However having said all this base limits would still only stop the excesses of horde driven game play. If the limit was set at e.g 15 or even 10  then much of the combat play we have already would continue unaffected.

However this number would be found by care full implementation over a prolonged period. Starting with say 30 and then gradually reducing until the desired effect was achieved.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 12:05:51 PM by Tilt »
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