Author Topic: Another new computer decision help request  (Read 2201 times)

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Another new computer decision help request
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2010, 04:59:56 PM »
Sure, you could make it work.  Move the swap off the primary and only store the programs on the primary and move everything else to an HD, but then there would be no real benefit to having it as I never boot the computer (it stays on 24/7) and the programs are all loaded out of Windows memory anyway.

The only time the HD gets hit is when data needs to be written or read for the application.  In my case, an SSD is a waste of money.
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Offline Tigger29

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Re: Another new computer decision help request
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2010, 05:24:16 PM »
Wow, I am very fortunate to have attracted this many intelligent board users so quickly. For the record, I enjoy civil debates that are based in fact, not arguing/flaming/fanboying/trolling. If we are willing to admit this or not : it's the way we all learn, by often being proven wrong.

You see, this right here is exactly why Engineers typically can not function in a 'normal' social setting.  Think of it.. how many arguments based on a REAL LIFE interaction are based only in fact... with no arguing, flaming, 'fanboying', and trolling being done?

That's right.. NONE.  Yes you can argue that some 'official' debates... whether political or otherwise might meet your criteria, but really all they do is find clever ways to do exactly that - and the fact that those kinds of discussions aren't open to everyone adds the the unrealistic approach of such.

Engineers simply possess an "I'm better than you because I possess knowledge and people listen to me!" (don't worry, pilots often have the same) attitude and while it MAY be true to an extent, the truth is that most of them have no CLUE how to function when it comes to translating their thoughts and ideas in a manner in which the average 'Joe' can understand.  I'd like to see Zeromajin try to become successful in a sales environment... or a customer service position... or God forbid work in a Customer Complaints department!  I'd be willing to bet that it just wouldn't happen!

I mean just look at this thread.  There is a user that asked about three options available to him/her and of which of these three options are a cost-effective means in which to improve the performance of Aces High.  It really is that simple!  I noted that an SSD would not be a cost effective option, and also that it's still a developing technology with 'issues' and I got SLAMMED by not only my redundancy in my saying "SSD Drive", but also in the fact that someone else did not agree with my statement that SSDs still have 'issues'.

Zero also forgot to take into account what exactly I meant when I said they have 'issues'.  Yes, I still maintain that they are not as reliable as traditional drives, but I have also heard a lot of nightmares from 'normal' computer users who tried to install and use SSDs with massive failures shortly after.  Perhaps the drive was of poor quality.  Perhaps they didn't properly configure it.  Perhaps there was a setting that they SIMPLY DID NOT KNOW THEY HAD TO MAKE, but regardless one has to admit that SSDs require a lot more configuration and knowledge to maintain as compared to a traditional drive, even if it's a 'simple' matter of configuring two drives.  Well that still makes things more confusing, doesn't it?

So by 'issues' I was factoring in not only technical information, but also social and economical details as well... but I can see how an engineer could easily simply not consider that to be a factor at all, since a 'non-educated' argument is of no interest to them.

I'm sure there are many teenagers/young adults that are extremely impressed at the proposition of an SSD speeding up their systems, and I'm sure that an SSD helps Zero out with all of the massive 3d rendering and video rendering he performs on his monster system, but the simple truth is that an SSD will NOT benefit the VAST MAJORITY of computer users out there, and will only complicate matters and aggravate the end users more.  Even if it were just as easy and reliable (and inexpensive) as a standard hard drive, an SSD still wouldn't make that much of a difference in system performance.

It's quite obvious to me that Zero needs to learn his audience and post accordingly.  Aces High is a game that is comprised of mostly middle-aged adult males using less than state-of-the-art systems.  While there are a considerable number of young adults who play as well the simple truth is that recommending an SSD to improve AH performance would be like recommending a Ferrari to a little blue-haired grandma who only uses her car to drive 2 blocks to bingo and 2 blocks to the grocery store once a week.

I should note that I am a 35 year old Automotive Master Technician, but also with MCSE Certification (2k track FWIW) and also that I turned down a Full Boat Engineering scholarship at UM-Rolla as a kid (looking back it wasn't a wise choice but I didn't really see it as a choice I could make at the time).  I try to stay in-touch with computer technology, even building them quite frequently as a hobby.  I note this because I DO get to see both sides of the fence.  Computer technology is not new to me and while I don't know everything about it, I feel that I know enough to make an 'educated' guess as to what technologies are actually going to be useful, and what technologies are not.

With that being noted after all of the arguments and discussions that have been made, no one has addressed the OP's questions in a long time.  As a matter of fact, he hasn't even been back to contribute... so being that this has become way off topic.. perhaps it should be considered to lock this due to a violation of Rule #2.

(Or would it now be a violation of Rule #5 due to me mentioning the Rule #2 violation?)

Offline zeromajin

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Re: Another new computer decision help request
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2010, 05:28:49 PM »
Well, you could simplify that process by installing your Vid/Ed software to the HD drive, and still running your less data intensive programs and games (I do assume your a gamer) off your SSD to enjoy things like < 1 sec loading screens in-game.

But, I agree, that would be somewhat convoluted just to gain a few seconds here, and a few seconds there if you had no interest in SSDs to begin with.

I also agree that SSDs are not for every system, esp. at the cost. But then, some people, (even most, given the ubiquitous nature) only need a Pentium 4 single core, 2GB ram, onboard video (they still make those right? lol) to check their e-mail and lurk Farmville.

For some users my Droid's specs would be overkill rofl.

Thanks for the back and forth Skuzzy, and making my introduction the forum thought provoking, it was fun.
I don't "sleep", I just catch quick naps during the load screens
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Offline zeromajin

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Re: Another new computer decision help request
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2010, 06:00:37 PM »
Quote
You see, this right here is exactly why Engineers typically can not function in a 'normal' social setting. 

Wow....did I just get called a nerd? rofl

And BTW, I function quit well in social circles, I even captain a weekly bowling team and previously captained a regional billiards team,  if thats "blue collar, common man" enough for you. So not only do I excel in social circles, but even in positions of leadership. How socially awkward could I be?

Funny you should mention sales, since I worked my entire way through college working as a sales associate/customer assistance for Sears in all the hardline (Lawn, electric appliances) for years on commission sales. And paid for my education on those commission sales, so while I don't know that I would say I was wildly successful, I was did pretty well.

As far as your claim that I "SLAMMED" you (note capitalization, its serious business) over "SSD drive" I distinctly recall calling this a "common mistake".

If you feel like I was being mean or condescending in that statement, maybe you should think about adjusting your sensitivity level to criticism.

As far as your sardonic implications about my "monster system" ...... well..... yes my PC is WAY overkill even for 99.9% of the world. But what  can I say I'm an enthusiast, some people spend thousands of dollars restoring old cars, building RC planes, hunting,manicuring their lawn, [insert frivolous hobby here] it's just my thing.

Then again,I'm not running a dual loop water cooling system w/ a waterfall reservoir and compression fittings on a hex-core CPU, and 4-way SLI like many other "enthusiast" I know. All of which could easily double the overall cost on my build.

Quote
It's quite obvious to me that Zero needs to learn his audience and post accordingly.

I would hate to believe that "dumbing down" my post would be any less condescending then you think I am.

Quote
the simple truth is that recommending an SSD to improve AH performance would be like recommending a Ferrari to a little blue-haired grandma

Er, if you review my post I never recommended and SSD for AH, in fact I openly deferred to your judgment on the matter.[I know, I'm so snobby :p] In fact I didn't bring up SSDs to begin with, the OPer had it listed as a potential component for his new build. So, he was at the very least interested in an SSD, and looking for good information regarding them.

My only point has always been, if it's too much for the game ok...fine, but don't scare him away from it with bad information.

All that being said, if I offended you I am sincerely sorry. Its apparent to me you gentlemen have put a great deal of effort and time in this forum, and I'll not assume to know its mechanics or its audience better then you.

 

       
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 06:22:50 PM by zeromajin »
I don't "sleep", I just catch quick naps during the load screens
Specs  CPU - i7 950 4.1 Ghz @ 1.304v  CPU Cooling - Prolimatech Super Mega
Mobo - Rampage III Extreme Memory - Kingston HyperX 12Gig
Boot Drive - Crucial SSD Storage Drive - WD Black 4TB Raid 0
GPU - GTX 580 x2

Offline skribetm

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Re: Another new computer decision help request
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2010, 06:10:12 PM »
That description was of my own home workload.  It is my PC.  I do a lot of video editing as a hobby and to create all the videos from the cameras used in my family.  After the holidays, it will be rendering projects for about 3 months.  For final pass renderings of large movies, I have a cluster of 4 PC's to do that, which also includes my own.  It is not uncommon for a rendering to take 3 or 4 days.

skuzzy,
what clustering OS do you use?
what are the hardware specs of your "cluster?"
what fabric/interconnect do you use?

Offline MonkGF

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Re: Another new computer decision help request
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2010, 10:06:05 PM »
The only negative aspect of using SSD over HD is cost per GB. (on avg. about 6 times more). So yes, for mass storage HDDs are definitely better since you'll see no real gain from stored data, only data that being manipulated (current project). Again I stated as much in a previous post.

Intel 120 GB X-25M = $229 = $1.91/GB
WD Caviar Black 640GB = $65 = $0.10/GB

$1.91 / 0.1 = 19 times more per GB.

And that's a "cheap" SSD (defined as "reasonable MLC-based design"; I had a hard time finding many under $2/GB). An SLC-based SSD designed for reliability (long life) is, say, an Intel X-25E 32 GB = $375 = $11.72/GB and can go much higher.
-- Greg Stelmack
-- Ex-AW pilot, Gunfighters Squadron

Offline zeromajin

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Re: Another new computer decision help request
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2010, 10:19:35 PM »
Intel 120 GB X-25M = $229 = $1.91/GB
WD Caviar Black 640GB = $65 = $0.10/GB

$1.91 / 0.1 = 19 times more per GB.

I arrived at my figures by comparing my WD 10K RPM Raptor (to make it a bit more even since you probably wouldn't use such a slow drive in lieu of a SSD anyways) and my personal Crucial C300.

Western Digital VelociRaptor = 300GB @ $170 = $0.56
Crucial C300                       = 128GB @ $280 = $2.18

$2.18 / 0.56 = ~ 4 times more per GB

So, I rounded up on my estimates. But, non of that detracts from what we all already know, SSDs are a LOT more expensive.
I don't "sleep", I just catch quick naps during the load screens
Specs  CPU - i7 950 4.1 Ghz @ 1.304v  CPU Cooling - Prolimatech Super Mega
Mobo - Rampage III Extreme Memory - Kingston HyperX 12Gig
Boot Drive - Crucial SSD Storage Drive - WD Black 4TB Raid 0
GPU - GTX 580 x2