Observations on the Panther "G".

[Urchin]

but wasnt the tigerIIs gun a stronger penetration than the 75mm and 88mm? (just a question, i honestly think the panther's gun cannot be outdone due to its weight and punch.)
it has stronger armor than the firefly. the frontal armor of the panther is devastating. 20 seems fine to me because the 75mm can punch through armor out to 2400 easily and still get tanks at further out with some accuracy needed.

No, the 75mm projectile out of the Panther had more kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) than the 88mm out of the Tiger. 

Going from memory here, but the Tiger fired something like a 22 lb projectile at around 800 m/s, the Panther fired a 15 lb projectile at around 900 m/s. 

Could be completely wrong, but thats the jist of it.  I'd have to go digging through books or yon internet to divine it for sure.  The 85mm on the T-34-85 fired a slightly smaller projectile than the Tiger, and at slightly less velocity to boot. 

[Lusche]

No, the 75mm projectile out of the Panther had more kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) than the 88mm out of the Tiger.

Note that BAR was talking about the Tiger II, which has a much more powerful cannon than the Tiger I.
The APCBC-HE shell was 10.4 kg and 1000m/s

[321BAR]

Note that BAR was talking about the Tiger II, which has a much more powerful cannon than the Tiger I.
The APCBC-HE shell was 10.4 kg and 1000m/s

thank you for the specifics <S>

[bangsbox]

And the 17 pdr with APDS (Firefly) was better (at least in penetrating armor) than all of them.  However according to my books, the 17 pdr was not quite as accurate as the German guns at long range, and the German optics were better.  (I'm not really sure what "better optics" means, but extrapolating from rifle scopes, perhaps they transmitted more light in lower light conditions). 

better optics mean the shot goes where i aim... more accuracy... i wish the tank optics were historical ...wink wink htc

[TDeacon]

better optics mean the shot goes where i aim... more accuracy... i wish the tank optics were historical ...wink wink htc

Whether a round goes where you aim is also a function of accuracy of the gun/ammo combination.  An example of this is grouping from a rifle fired from a machine rest, where not all rounds will hit in the same place.  I would imagine that a tank mounting is analogous to a machine rest (the real-world tankers can chime in here...)  This has nothing to do with optics.  

[321BAR]

Whether a round goes where you aim is also a function of accuracy of the gun/ammo combination.  An example of this is grouping from a rifle fired from a machine rest, where not all rounds will hit in the same place.  I would imagine that a tank mounting is analogous to a machine rest (the real-world tankers can chime in here...)  This has nothing to do with optics.  

in game. you point the optics in the exact same position you had it when you fired the previous round and it will go to the exact same spot...

Although if we had wind variance in the MAs i feel this would change in game? correct me if im wrong with this assumption. i have never GV'd in an arena/scenario with wind added in.

[Lusche]

waaaa

major fail in reading comprehension on my side

[redcatcherb412]

I killed 4 Panthers last night.  I also got killed 4 times by one because my rounds bounced off of it..
A good solid side shot at close range only disabled it. Took a second shot to kill it.. Killed one with a rear shot easy.  This while using an M76. My front shots bounced off. To me it looks like a well placed side or rear shot works best.. Each time one killed me it was because I missed my first shot..
Currently, I am 50 50 against the new Panther..

Nice addition to the game I think.. It is nice to see the changes taking place on a regular bases...

Its a one-shot killer allright. But, in an M4-75 it takes 2 HE's to track it and lean it towards you, then 2 AP in the top of the turret hatch to kill it.  But if you are in it's sights, be ready to re-spawn.

[R 105]

The new Panthers pendal gun is just about worthless. I have seen many photos of the Panther and all I see mostly is the 360 degree anti air craft MG rings on the commanders hatch like what is on the Panzer and Tiger in the game.

[TDeacon]

The new Panthers pendal gun is just about worthless. I have seen many photos of the Panther and all I see mostly is the 360 degree anti air craft MG rings on the commanders hatch like what is on the Panzer and Tiger in the game.

There is a bugfix thread on this; I agree with you.  If Sherman, Tiger and Panzer IV can do 360, then Panther should be able to as well.  (In real life, it was a bit more complicated, but lots of things in this game are abstractions, so we should go for consistent representation here).  Problem is that HTC got carried away with the 3-D modeling aspect of the Panther, and forgot to sanity-test the gameplay consequences.  Probably because not many of them play GVs. 

[SmokinLoon]

There is a bugfix thread on this; I agree with you.  If Sherman, Tiger and Panzer IV can do 360, then Panther should be able to as well.  (In real life, it was a bit more complicated, but lots of things in this game are abstractions, so we should go for consistent representation here).  Problem is that HTC got carried away with the 3-D modeling aspect of the Panther, and forgot to sanity-test the gameplay consequences.  Probably because not many of them play GVs. 

The Panther G is the first tank model to have the top MG done correctly, perhaps HTC is going to correct the rest of the tanks with top MG's?   

[E25280]

And the 17 pdr with APDS (Firefly) was better (at least in penetrating armor) than all of them.  However according to my books, the 17 pdr was not quite as accurate as the German guns at long range, and the German optics were better.  (I'm not really sure what "better optics" means, but extrapolating from rifle scopes, perhaps they transmitted more light in lower light conditions). 

If referring specifically to the APDS round, also consider the mechanics of the round itself.  APDS = Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot.  The separation of the sabot from the smaller diameter round was not always "clean," and could cause variation to the round's course.  It was a new technology at the time, after all.  Even a small variation in course at the muzzle could cause the round to miss widely at long range.

[Oldman731]

The Panther G is the first tank model to have the top MG done correctly, perhaps HTC is going to correct the rest of the tanks with top MG's?   

Was thinking this myself.

- oldman

[R 105]

The late war German tanks did have the 360% anti air craft ring mounted MG. Ever been to the Patton museum at Ft. Knox KY. I was station there and spent a lot of time in it. The Germans had little to no air cover in the west by late 44 and installed these MG rings even on top of trucks in some cases.

[Blooz]

The late war German tanks did have the 360% anti air craft ring mounted MG. Ever been to the Patton museum at Ft. Knox KY. I was station there and spent a lot of time in it. The Germans had little to no air cover in the west by late 44 and installed these MG rings even on top of trucks in some cases.

The books I'm looking at show otherwise. The ring around the Panther G tank commanders hatch goes about 270 degrees (actually a little less). The reason it is like this is to have clearence enough to pivot the hatch out of the way. The mount for the gun was manually clamped to the ring. To change position, you turned the turret or unclamped and moved the gun mount.

The Sherman however has a rotating cupola. This is the reason you see photos of the .50cal on a Sherman in many different positions. The commanders hatch was mounted on a ball bearing race so the gun position could be changed easily by unlocking the cupola and turning it to a new position. This was a little different than the AA mounting rings on the M7 "Priest" self propelled  105 howitzer and on 6x6 2.5 ton trucks. Those rings were well designed to swing freely to engage aircraft with the .50 cal.