need me262

[715]

The P80's reputation is not based on a comparision with Me262s as it was not used in WWII.  It's reputation, which was not the very best, comes from its comparision against more advanced aircraft, Migs in Korea, at a much later date.  It would probably be comparable or better than the Me262.  However, I don't think ANYone here is suggesting including the P80 in AH so why do people keep complaining?

The Me262 is a very logical addition to AH but it would change the dynamics a lot and up the annoyance level quite a bit- especially for those pilots who want to live and land.  The Ar234 was an excellent addition to AH: it gets an operational jet in play, but it doesn't change the balance much, as it doesn't have guns.

By the way- someone mentioned the swept wings of the Me262 as an example of superior German science and technology.  Actually, I believe the swept wings were a total accident and not a result of advanced high speed aerodynamic research.  They swept them back to move the balance back- they had no idea of the effect on trans-sonic aerodynamics.

715

[Hangtime]

Put the P80 in AH!

 

[M.C.202]

Some info on the 262/P-80 numbers I found in a quick search. P-80 listed under 262.

Engine: Two 1,986 lb (900 kg) thrust Junkers Jumo 004B axial flow Turbojets
        One 4500lb (2,041kg) thrust Allison J33-A-21 turbojet.

Wing Span: 41 ft 1 in (12.5 m)
      38 ft 9 in (11.81 m)

Length: 34 ft 8.5 in (10.58 m)
   34 ft (10.49 m)

Height: 12 ft 6.75 in (3.83 m)
   11 ft 4 in (3.45 m)

Weight: Empty 8,820 lb (4,000 kg)
   Empty 8,176 lb (3,709 kg)

   Loaded  14,938 lb (7,045 kg)
        Gross    11,700 lb (5,350), Max T/O 14,000 lb (6,350)

Maximum Speed:  540 mph at 19,685 ft (870 km/h at 6,000 m)
           577 mph (929 km/h) at 6,000 ft (1,830 m)
           558 mph at sea level
           492 mph at 40,000 ft

Ceiling: 37,664 ft (11,450 m )
    45,000 ft (13,716 m)

Range: 650 miles (1,050 km)
       780/1,440 miles (1,255km/2,317 km)

Climb Rate:  3,937 ft/min (1,200 m/min)
        4,580 ft/min (1,396 m/min)

Armament: Four 30 mm MK108 cannons in nose, two with 100 rounds each, two with 80; could also carry 24 R4M 55 mm unguided rockets on
underwing racks.
           P-80: Six .50cal mgs, 2,000 lbs bombs, 10 rockets (5 in?)

[Kieran]

I give, Grun. Point to, and quote, the exact reference in this thread where you see anyone say, or even insinuate, we should have the P-80 in AH.

edit here: Of course we know that Hangtime's request was a jab at the LW.  

The P-80 was brought into the discussion by uberkid's rather naive comment on its "crappy design". Since then every comment on the P-80 has been made in comparison to the vaunted 262 (and a few Korean era jets), but none have suggested that the P-80 be added.

I personally have stated it would be a great fight between the 262 and P-80. I have also flatly stated I am not for adding it. I have re-read the thread thinking maybe someone else is asking for it. Result? Not one person in the thread appears to be asking for it.

Wanna know what is funny, though? The second someone threw out the performance numbers on a contemporary American jet fighter (by contemporary I mean fighters in production at the same time, so don't give me the "how many served in the war BS") you chime in with "well, if you get this we need to get the 262 that would have served 6 months later". The brutal fact is the P-80 of April 1945 would have kicked the 262 of April 1945's a**. You know it, and I know it. The other brutal fact is that, since America was slow (by virtue of the fact they didn't have to rush development as badly as Germany did) to get the P-80 into service it didn't see any action (though it was in the theatre at war's end). This in my mind disqualifies the P-80 from service in AH.

By all means, advocate whatever plane you wish. Push for the 262, it was in service during the war and should be included. But for crying out loud, could you at least somewhat avoid mischaracterizing the discussion as a means of justifying your advocacy?  

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Kieran ]

[Fester']

a p-80 in a ww2 sim?

might as well add in the f86

[hblair]

no kidding