Author Topic: Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)  (Read 375 times)

Offline bloom25

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« on: April 28, 2001, 01:33:00 AM »
>Continued from part 2<

Intel has even gone one step farther this time.  In an attempt to do what can only an attempt at deception, it named a set of features in the P4 "Netburst."  They are actively marketing the processor as being the "center of your digital world" and being able to make your internet experience come to life.  Let me be the first to tell you that "Netburst" will enhance your "Internet" about as much as forgetting to take baths will enhance your social life.      "Netburst" is just Intelese for a Quad pumped 100 Mhz bus "400 Mhz" along with a few other "features" of the p4 design.

As if you need another reason at this point not to buy a P4, there is one more, and it's a big one.  Intel will be changing the P4 later this year, and as a result the socket it fits in will be different.  This means if you buy a P4 now you won't be able to upgrade it to a faster one in as little as 3 months.    Intel only released the current P4s because their market share was rapidly being lost to AMD.  In doing so they have basically screwed the people who are buying the current P4s for upgrading.

If you want to read even more in depth why the P4 is not the best processor out there, I suggest:  www.emulators.com/pentium4.htm

Guys, please don't fall for clever marketing and just assume the P4 is the better processor.  The truth is it's not.  So far most people haven't been swayed by Intel's ads, and the P4 only has about a 1% market share in it's first quarter of release.  Recently though Intel has milked out most of the uneducated consumers with lots of cash to burn.  They have slashed the prices of the P4s by as much as 60%, but the AMD is still cheaper AND Faster!

All is not lost for Intel though, the p4 does have some very good features, but unfortunately it has a number of flaws that prevent it from being the performer it should be.  Most of those flaws are caused by Intel cutting costs by disabling or removing parts of the processor to save money.  Intel had better hurry though, in 2 months AMD will release it's next version of the Athlon core.  The codename of this is "Palomino."  Among it's improvements are much reduced power consumption, possibly even more cache memory, and the ability to go to higher clock speeds.  The newer Kt133a and AMD 761 ddr Motherboards will be able to use these chips with no more than a simple bios flash.  The Palomino core should easy allow Athlon to reach 2 Gig by the first part of next year.  It already exists, but AMD is waiting to release it because it's current Athlons are more than enough to stand up to the P4.  The next 6 months should see a massive ramp up in clock speeds by both Intel and AMD just like last year.

I hope those of you who have made it to the end of this post have learned something about CPUs.  My hope is that you now have the ability to recognize that clock speed comparisons between 2 different types of processors are almost totally meaningless.

Anyone still want a P4?  



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Offline bloom25

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2001, 01:53:00 AM »
Oh, here's a little sidenote for you Mac nuts out there.  Why do you suppose Apple has had such a hard time getting it's Motorola G4s to run over 500 Mhz until recently?  Did anybody guess "pipeline?"  If you did, you are right.  The pipeline in the G4 chips was originally only 5 or 6 stages.  This does mean that at 500 Mhz it is really doing about as much as an Athlon at 1 Gig, but most consumers didn't know that.  Motorola tried very hard to get the chip to run faster, but until very recently it's been stuck at 500 Mhz.  Guess what they finally did that allowed them to release their new 700 Mhz+ G4s?  The answer:  They made the pipeline longer.  Now they can indeed go faster than 500 Mhz, but it also means that clock per clock the 500 Mhz processors are actually faster than the 700 MHz ones.  Even with the extra 200 Mhz the new G4s aren't much faster than the 500s.  This is very similar to the situation with the Athlon and P4.



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Offline Ghosth

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2001, 08:14:00 AM »
Thanks Bloom!

<S>

Offline Tac

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2001, 10:14:00 AM »
Thanks bloom! Laymans terms! Whoohoo!

THe a7m266 motherboard will be able to use the palomino chips..right?  

After reading this I finally understood what a hwr nerd (that couldnt explain things without laymans terms lol) I work with told me a few days ago.. the bus!

That's why SGI systems are so fricken fast, an SGI 350mhz beats a P4 1.5ghz... because SGI does not use BUS!      oh yeah, them systems are about 3000 bucks too    

Offline bloom25

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2001, 11:00:00 AM »
The a7m266 should have no trouble with the Palominos.  At most you would probably have to flash the bios.

(Amd has actually already demoed the Palomino for the last 6 months now, it was running on their 760 reference board.)

I do realize that the above article makes it seem that the p4 is total junk.  While the Athlon is quite a bit better, the p4 does actually have some good features.  Intel should also have no problem ramping up the clock speed with the p4.  All this means is more competition and better prices/products for us.    I really hope AMD can continue to design and build excellent processors to keep the PC processor business from being all but a monopoly once again.

I'm glad you guys enjoyed the article.  It took me about an hour and a half to write.  (Yes, I was bored.)



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Offline bloom25

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2001, 10:38:00 AM »
The news just got worse about Intel today.  It may not be true, but several sources are indicating that Intel's new .13 micron process for the new P4s is not working well.  Faster P4 chips are going to be delayed up to 4 months.  By that time if all goes well at AMD the Athlon will be running just as fast as the P4s.  As you guys have seen by now, that would mean the Athlon's performance would be MUCH greater than the P4.
 www.tomshardware.com  has a link to the source article in their news for today.

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[This message has been edited by bloom25 (edited 04-30-2001).]

MrSiD

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2001, 04:23:00 AM »
If you want a P4 versus T-bird speed comparison, go here: http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/cpus/intel/p417/

Offline bloom25

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2001, 10:00:00 PM »
It's an interesting, though very limited article.  They only review one game, quake 3.  Everybody knows that this is about the only game in which the P4 is faster than the Athlon.  I would have liked to have seen more direct x benchmarks.  (Ah is afterall DX based. )  The one old DX benchmark used shows the Athlon administering a royal beating to the P4.



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Offline bloom25

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Why is the P4 bad? (Part 3)
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2001, 10:17:00 PM »
That link at the bottom of the hardocp article is a little better. http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q2/pentium4-1.7/index.x?pg=1

The p4 wins a couple, but the Athlon 1.2 is beating the 1.7 P4 in most of the benchmarks.  The 1.33 is the overall winner for sure.

(Good news, AMD just cut prices by about 30% the other day.  We should see the results in a couple weeks as the price cuts trickle down. )



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