Author Topic: Why the Hordes?  (Read 23106 times)

Offline sky25

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2011, 05:14:19 PM »


There is always a solution to the horde tactical problem - it just cannot be solved alone.  1 vs Horde = Death.  10 vs Horde = a helluva interesting fight.  The solution to the horde is to get some guys together and go fight it. 

This is true except the ones who are the most vocal about NOE's and Hordes wont up to defend because it will affect the most important thing in the game to them. Their SCORE!

I will say that I see SHAWK on many occasions all alone defending bases against overwhelming numbers attacking. Last night the Bish were attacking A5 in off hours. It was one heck of a fight. Just before the base was taken by us. There was SHAWK all alone mixed up in a fight with 10+ enemy fighters. Talking crap on 200 the entire time.. I have to give him credit. Salute SHAWK by the way!

This was a well defended base with a Rook CV offshore as well... I will not mention names, but a few of the high score guys were defending at first, but when we started to get the upper hand, many of those guys seemed to vanish.. If they lose the advantage, they go away to something else.. Then rant on 200 about the Bish horde attacking their base.



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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2011, 05:18:50 PM »
This is true except the ones who are the most vocal about NOE's and Hordes wont up to defend because it will affect the most important thing in the game to them. Their SCORE!

I will say that I see SHAWK on many occasions all alone defending bases against overwhelming numbers attacking. Last night the Bish were attacking A5 in off hours. It was one heck of a fight. Just before the base was taken by us. There was SHAWK all alone mixed up in a fight with 10+ enemy fighters. Talking crap on 200 the entire time.. I have to give him credit. Salute SHAWK by the way!

This was a well defended base with a Rook CV offshore as well... I will not mention names, but a few of the high score guys were defending at first, but when we started to get the upper hand, many of those guys seemed to vanish.. If they lose the advantage, they go away to something else.. Then rant on 200 about the Bish horde attacking their base.



What is your obsession that if guys dont play the base take that they are in it for score? Prob the most ignorant statement one can use in the game
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Offline sky25

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2011, 05:22:10 PM »
What is your obsession that if guys dont play the base take that they are in it for score? Prob the most ignorant statement one can use in the game

Well, if your not in it for the base take then stop being ignorant and complaining about base takers... You guys want everyone to play the game your way...

I have no problem with furballers, or any other type of play... Just don't be a hypocrite and complain on 200 about the horde taking your base while you sit in the tower not defending it because your score might suffer... There, I said it. Flame Away!!! :salute
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 05:26:09 PM by sky25 »


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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2011, 05:31:32 PM »
Well, if your not in it for the base take then stop being ignorant and complaining about base takers... You guys want everyone to play the game your way...
Good percentage of guys that complain about base-takers in this game dont complain about the base take itself. and NO we dont want you to play "our" way. Get a couple years under your belt and you will finally "get it"
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Offline DMGOD

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2011, 05:32:28 PM »
Well, if your not in it for the base take then stop being ignorant and complaining about base takers... You guys want everyone to play the game your way...

I have no problem with furballers, or any other type of play... Just don't be a hypocrite and complain on 200 about the horde taking your base while you sit in the tower not defending it because your score might suffer... There, I said it. Flame Away!!! :salute
so sky u up from capped bases and defend?
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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2011, 05:36:03 PM »
so sky u up from capped bases and defend?

Nope..they using STRATEGERY and are off plugging some other base that is way off the map  :rofl
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Offline sky25

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2011, 05:38:54 PM »
so sky u up from capped bases and defend?

Look at my deaths. That should answer your question. Get vulched on capped runways and bombed every time I play defending bases.. I salute the winner and up again. I am not worried about my score.. I enjoy playing the game.   I think your missing my point. I watch the same thing almost every night.
Bish are working a base. 10 guys on 200 talking crap about the horde trying to take their base. Maybe 1 or 2 of them actually on the ground or in the air defending... :salute
I might add that this happens with all countries including Bish..


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Offline Rino

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2011, 05:38:58 PM »
Good percentage of guys that complain about base-takers in this game dont complain about the base take itself. and NO we dont want you to play "our" way. Get a couple years under your belt and you will finally "get it"

     I sincerely doubt it  :D
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Offline sky25

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2011, 05:40:33 PM »
     I sincerely doubt it  :D

Wow! Tell the truth and they come out of the woodwork after you!!


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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2011, 05:47:49 PM »
Wow! Tell the truth and they come out of the woodwork after you!!
Sky, I watch hockey and the best way to give an analogy on your squad is the same as watching a live game and one guy on my team rails the other team's agitator into the boards.

You willingly took on to a squad that believes in strength in #s and have no qualms to sportmanship when you play the basetake game. Doing so makes you a viable target to most that play this game. Happens to most large squads as they are really disliked in this game.
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Offline sky25

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2011, 05:55:58 PM »
Sky, I watch hockey and the best way to give an analogy on your squad is the same as watching a live game and one guy on my team rails the other team's agitator into the boards.

You willingly took on to a squad that believes in strength in #s and have no qualms to sportmanship when you play the basetake game. Doing so makes you a viable target to most that play this game. Happens to most large squads as they are really disliked in this game.

This we agree on oTralFZo! My only point is the players who complain about their bases being taken, yet will not even up to defend them... :salute You and I both know that there are some who do this in the MA's...


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Offline Knite

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2011, 06:01:15 PM »
I always thought the "horde" was an interesting topic, because it's both what's good, and what's not good about a massive online game.

Here's the thing... the "horde" has a LOT of positives to offer, and as was previously stated, human nature tends to gravitate us towards that sort of thing. There's comraderie, there's a feeling of participating in something bigger than yourself, there's a feeling of accomplishment if the group you're part of establishes a CAP, sinks the carrier, or takes the base. There's a feeling of "belonging" and flying with a group of other like-minded people.
None of those have anything to do with score whoring, wanting to do overkill, or anything of the sort. The "horde" in my opinion is purely a function of social construct. It satisfies social desires, especially for people who are not known or well established in the game (which classifies probably 90% of the people out there). This tends to be the bread and butter of what keeps a LOT of MMO style games alive, INCLUDING Aces High. Doesn't matter if you're talking PvP or PvE.

As was mentioned before... at one time there used to be "anti-hordes" that'd up in defense, and would create some great fights. A lot of those anti-hordes no longer exist though. Why? What's the difference between then and now? A lot of people think it's the players, and yes, there's some change there, but a lot has to do with the game as well. Back in old Beta days, all you needed to capture an airfield was a goon and nerves of steel. You didn't need CAP, you didn't need to de-ack or take down a town. You just needed to grab a goon, drop 10 drunks on the runway (sometimes under the nose of the enemy), and the field was yours. Because it WAS so easy, multiple fields could change in a matter of minutes, not hours. Defense was incredibly important because if your country didn't participate in both offense AND defense, you'd find that you would be losing bases at a really rediculous rate, and not taking enemy ones nearly as fast.

In a strange way... the addition of difficulty to running bases has actually removed as much importance of keeping bases, and increased the desire for a co-ordinated (or just plain old horde) attacks as taking a base became far more important than keeping them. In old old days... the incentive for defending bases was because they were so easily captured, you needed to pay closer attention... now, there's not nearly as much incentive, and a lot of people figure with the radar, the flashing bases, the ack, the mutliple spawns, the town to take down... someone will eventually go over there to defend.. except there is no "someone" because EVERYONE figures "someone" will, and not do it themselves.

What's the fix? That's a tough one. The social aspect is not something you want to remove from the game because it's the exact same thing that helps keep it alive. Incentivize defense in some way? Perhaps that would help. Make base taking easier? Who knows. Lots of talk about making it tougher over the years is why we are where we are now. Is it even something that NEEDS to be fixed? Well that's the real question in my opinion, and even to that, I could see arguments for both sides, and frankly have no idea what the "right" answer is, other than if I were in HTC's shoes, I'd do whatever answer keeps him running the longest (which is, I'm sure, what he tries to do).


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Offline crazyivan

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2011, 06:03:12 PM »
lol i did quit but im such a loser and have no life that i unquit
Why are you still here? :rolleyes:
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2011, 07:04:57 PM »
This is true except the ones who are the most vocal about NOE's and Hordes wont up to defend because it will affect the most important thing in the game to them. Their SCORE!

I will say that I see SHAWK on many occasions all alone defending bases against overwhelming numbers attacking. Last night the Bish were attacking A5 in off hours. It was one heck of a fight. Just before the base was taken by us. There was SHAWK all alone mixed up in a fight with 10+ enemy fighters. Talking crap on 200 the entire time.. I have to give him credit. Salute SHAWK by the way!

This was a well defended base with a Rook CV offshore as well... I will not mention names, but a few of the high score guys were defending at first, but when we started to get the upper hand, many of those guys seemed to vanish.. If they lose the advantage, they go away to something else.. Then rant on 200 about the Bish horde attacking their base.



THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT BASE TAKING !

Base taking is one of the top things to do in this game, however you don't need a horde to do it either. The point here is by running in a horde your diminishing the fun of your teammates (seeing as the first half of the guys in do all the damage and the second half doesn't do anything), and completely ruining the fun of the opposition. I've heard people say who cares if the opposition has fun? You should. If the opposition doesn't have fun (which is what happens after upping a number of times to get vulched or ganged by 30+ guys trying to defend against a horde) the opposition leaves. Leaves for the night you get a bunch of bases cheap and easy. Leaves for good (cancels their subscription) and the game dies.

I always thought the "horde" was an interesting topic, because it's both what's good, and what's not good about a massive online game.

Here's the thing... the "horde" has a LOT of positives to offer, and as was previously stated, human nature tends to gravitate us towards that sort of thing. There's comraderie, there's a feeling of participating in something bigger than yourself, there's a feeling of accomplishment if the group you're part of establishes a CAP, sinks the carrier, or takes the base. There's a feeling of "belonging" and flying with a group of other like-minded people.
None of those have anything to do with score whoring, wanting to do overkill, or anything of the sort. The "horde" in my opinion is purely a function of social construct. It satisfies social desires, especially for people who are not known or well established in the game (which classifies probably 90% of the people out there). This tends to be the bread and butter of what keeps a LOT of MMO style games alive, INCLUDING Aces High. Doesn't matter if you're talking PvP or PvE.

As was mentioned before... at one time there used to be "anti-hordes" that'd up in defense, and would create some great fights. A lot of those anti-hordes no longer exist though. Why? What's the difference between then and now? A lot of people think it's the players, and yes, there's some change there, but a lot has to do with the game as well. Back in old Beta days, all you needed to capture an airfield was a goon and nerves of steel. You didn't need CAP, you didn't need to de-ack or take down a town. You just needed to grab a goon, drop 10 drunks on the runway (sometimes under the nose of the enemy), and the field was yours. Because it WAS so easy, multiple fields could change in a matter of minutes, not hours. Defense was incredibly important because if your country didn't participate in both offense AND defense, you'd find that you would be losing bases at a really rediculous rate, and not taking enemy ones nearly as fast.

In a strange way... the addition of difficulty to running bases has actually removed as much importance of keeping bases, and increased the desire for a co-ordinated (or just plain old horde) attacks as taking a base became far more important than keeping them. In old old days... the incentive for defending bases was because they were so easily captured, you needed to pay closer attention... now, there's not nearly as much incentive, and a lot of people figure with the radar, the flashing bases, the ack, the mutliple spawns, the town to take down... someone will eventually go over there to defend.. except there is no "someone" because EVERYONE figures "someone" will, and not do it themselves.

What's the fix? That's a tough one. The social aspect is not something you want to remove from the game because it's the exact same thing that helps keep it alive. Incentivize defense in some way? Perhaps that would help. Make base taking easier? Who knows. Lots of talk about making it tougher over the years is why we are where we are now. Is it even something that NEEDS to be fixed? Well that's the real question in my opinion, and even to that, I could see arguments for both sides, and frankly have no idea what the "right" answer is, other than if I were in HTC's shoes, I'd do whatever answer keeps him running the longest (which is, I'm sure, what he tries to do).

Agreed, it is social behavior. I think it can be trained out if those that "lead" truly lead and show other ways to approach the game. The anti-horde squads where not so much "anti-horde" because we really didn't have the horde issue we do now. A good night in the old day was 100 people on. 15 guys hitting a base was a target for defenders because we only had a 12 bases as it was. Some nights your country didn't number enough people to make what HTC allows for a squad here.

As the numbers grow the social behavior will cause the groups to get bigger and bigger until it's a horde. Then as the horde moves around less and less people will try to defend against it. No not because of their score....well not for most any way  :D no most give up because it just isn't fun.

Can it be changed, yes I think so. Should it? yes I think so. I know it can change because you see it happen as a player gets more and more time in. I use to run into Falcon23 and his friends all the time. Now adays when you run into him he isn't hiding in a crowd of 30 of his closes friends. These days he's in a much smaller group with better skills. It is a much better fight running into him these days. I don't know if he's having more fun or not, but I know I am, and I'm sure there a many others as well.

Offline DMGOD

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2011, 07:08:41 PM »
Why are you still here? :rolleyes:
same reason u r
Because every pretty girl deserves to go to a ball.  http://thedrunkenmonkeys.webs.com

This is the smartest saying ever, period. nothing beats it if you really look deep into he meaning. your a g*&da^*genius dmgod  :aok