Author Topic: To Appomattox  (Read 2357 times)

Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2011, 04:19:40 PM »
Widewing,

I don't know where you got that info about the hill being unoccupied. At the time that Gen. Ewell was told to advance if practical, at that time the hill was empty, he thought about it to long. After fierce campaigning with Jackson you would think that Gen. Ewell would have recognized this fact, but alas he is no artillery genieus as his commander.
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Offline Golfer

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2011, 05:38:21 PM »
Widewing,

I don't know where you got that info about the hill being unoccupied. At the time that Gen. Ewell was told to advance if practical, at that time the hill was empty, he thought about it to long. After fierce campaigning with Jackson you would think that Gen. Ewell would have recognized this fact, but alas he is no artillery genieus as his commander.

He didn't get his information from the screenplay adapted from Michael Shaara's novel.

Offline Saxman

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2011, 05:43:50 PM »
Todd,

Widewing is probably one of the most reliable guys on this board when it comes to being able to pull out legitimate documentation on whatever subject he's discussing. I swear, he's got scans and microfilm of pretty much everything.  :noid
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Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2011, 06:47:50 PM »
I think when Lee said "he had lost his right arm", when Jackson died, says alot more than what you have.

Just remember there were some on Ike's staff that didn't think Patton could get to Bastogne in time.

Understand Lee's context... Lee certainly felt the loss of Jackson, as he did the wounding of Longstreet in the Wilderness.

Most Civil War historians with no agenda agree that Jackson would not likely have been successful at taking either hill after 5 PM on July 1. There were simply too many Federal troops, with too much artillery.

Ewell's problem at 4 PM, July 1 and Patton's problem on December 21, 1944 were utterly different.

Not even the legendary Stonewall could push off 20,000 Federals, dug-in behind breastworks, with just 7,000 men. Especially when those Union troops were led by the formidable Winfield Scott Hancock, who was without doubt, the boldest General in the Army of the Potomac. He wasn't called "Hancock the superb" for nothing....
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2011, 07:41:56 PM »
Widewing,

I don't know where you got that info about the hill being unoccupied. At the time that Gen. Ewell was told to advance if practical, at that time the hill was empty, he thought about it to long. After fierce campaigning with Jackson you would think that Gen. Ewell would have recognized this fact, but alas he is no artillery genieus as his commander.

Coddington's "The Gettysburg Campaign, A Study in Command". This is the "Bible" of Gettysburg studies. Begin with Map 6, and then begin reading on page 297, paragraph 2.

After 40+ years of studying the War Between the States, even doing my Masters Thesis on the Gettysburg Campaign, I've read just about every account, every official history, every study and analysis of the battle. Add to that countless books and articles.

Ewell was told to attempt to take Cemetery Hill (no mention of Culps Hill in Lee's order) if at all practicable. I'll say again that Lee had very poor intel of the condition of the 2nd Corps and what they were facing. Ewell also commented that he wanted to push up the hill as soon as possible. So, once again, I will state that Ewell's Corps was in no condition to do so for at least an hour, probably much longer. Rodes units were largely wrecked... Early's Division was completely disorganized by pursuing the 11th Corp through the town. Units were scattered all over the town, regiments and brigades would take time to reform to the north of the town. Intermingled with the Confederates were hundreds of Union prisoners. Smith was just arriving and Johnson was two hours from being on the field. (Edit: I forgot to mention that Smith's scouts reported that a very large body of Union infantry was seen to be advancing down the York Pike, which would put them on Ewell's left flank, which was largely hanging in the air. This startled Ewell, who ordered a scouting party out to confirm the sighting. About two hours later, they returned and stated that large bodies of Federal troops with artillery and ammunition trains were indeed advancing, but on Hanover Road and the Baltimore Pike, which would not place them on his direct left flank. Few could argue that Ewell was timid in assaulting either hill when there was a real concern that his left flank was in danger.)

Lee saw the high ground and knew that if the Federals reinforced the hill, pushing them off would be very difficult. So, he passed his order onto Ewell via Walter Taylor.

Aside from Coddington, two other books that are useful and easy to read (Coddington is not an easy read) are Stephen Sears, "Gettysburg" and Noah Trudeau's, "Gettysburg, a Testing of Courage". These three will present a definitive understanding of the battle, its tactics, strategy and leadership. Moreover, the second two are extremely well written and thoroughly entertaining. What all three also do is cut through the mythology of the battle, both Union and Confederate.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 08:03:30 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2011, 08:27:04 PM »
You gentlemen may enjoy this brief study..... Take note of the messages and telegraph messages included at the end of the document...

http://www.history.army.mil/StaffRide/Gettysburg/gettysburg_2010.pdf
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Penguin

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2011, 12:01:44 AM »
You gentlemen may enjoy this brief study..... Take note of the messages and telegraph messages included at the end of the document...

http://www.history.army.mil/StaffRide/Gettysburg/gettysburg_2010.pdf

Have you ever considered writing a history book of your own? 

-Penguin

Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2011, 08:52:55 AM »
Have you ever considered writing a history book of your own? 

-Penguin

I am currently working on a history based fiction manuscript.. No timetable on completion.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2011, 09:29:14 AM »
He didn't get his information from the screenplay adapted from Michael Shaara's novel.

You shouldn't assume.

Rather than sitting in a library or using google I go out and experience the Civil War. I have driven thousands of miles and spent countless hours with my head buried in the war between the states. From private collections to the library of congress I have researched to feed my addiction.

The main thing in my life is the war between the states. It is my main interest. It use to be aces high, but about three years ago after obtaining permission from several private collections I don't have time for aces high anymore, as I will never have enough free time to cover all the information I have been given access to.


If ten people saw a fight you would get ten different opinions on what happened. In this case I am offering one of those mentioned.



I was simply adding my .02 to the discussion.
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Offline fudgums

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2011, 02:06:18 PM »
either way I'm enjoying the discussion between widewing and todd.  :aok
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Offline Penguin

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2011, 05:21:09 PM »
Poor Todd, Widewing is  :ahand to him.

-Penguin

Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2011, 06:05:57 PM »
Poor Todd, Widewing is  :ahand to him.

-Penguin

Not at all... Todd is an enthusiast, a guy who spends his money and time reliving history. He has read many of the eyewitness accounts of the battle, and has been honest in that these accounts may differ from others. This is a common factor found; with varying accounts reporting different events while on the same portion of the battlefield. I very much appreciate Todd, and welcome discussion of the events surrounding Gettysburg.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Penguin

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2011, 06:47:01 PM »
Not at all... Todd is an enthusiast, a guy who spends his money and time reliving history. He has read many of the eyewitness accounts of the battle, and has been honest in that these accounts may differ from others. This is a common factor found; with varying accounts reporting different events while on the same portion of the battlefield. I very much appreciate Todd, and welcome discussion of the events surrounding Gettysburg.

Oops, overstepped the mark.  :eek:

-Penguin

« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 09:12:55 PM by Penguin »

Offline bj229r

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #73 on: January 23, 2011, 09:09:04 PM »
I am currently working on a history based fiction manuscript.. No timetable on completion.
Those are my absolute favorite sort of books! (Michael Crichton and Ken Follet come to mind)
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Offline macleod01

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2011, 04:41:43 PM »
Since we seem to have historians on other periods of history other than WW2, Is any one interested in Napoleonic warfare? Particularly the Peninsular War? If so, be interesting to cross brains with you!

<S>
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