Author Topic: Monk's New Pit  (Read 1333 times)

Offline MonkGF

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Monk's New Pit
« on: November 07, 2010, 06:51:36 AM »
No pictures yet, this is still in the planning stages, but as I'm going through this from the ground up and learning about cockpit and panel building I thought I might share the experience from the early stages as I learn and it might help others learn. Note that my electronics skills are limited; I took a circuits class in college taught by a professor who decided we needed to learn for ourselves with very little instruction from him using a textbook that was famous for "and based on theorem x.y.z" without telling you WHY that theorem applied or often even HOW, so while I understand what a resistor is and for that's about as far as my wiring goes. Fortunately it looks like Leo Bodnar has taken the guesswork out of much of this, as his controller board (http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/) just needs buttons and axes wired right into it without diodes or resistors or any of that other fancy stuff, so I should be golden.

I am redoing my den which is giving me the opportunity to improve my Aces High controller setup. I currently have CH Pro Pedals, Pro Throttle, Fighterstick, and an MFP, but I can't figure out how to mount the MFP, so it's kind of sitting next to the monitor flat and not easy to see. What I am planning to do is a built-in corner desk wrapping around a good half of the room, ending up with enough space for 2 parents and 2 kids each with their own machines. Depth of the desk is to be determined, and will be somewhere around 24" (typical writing desk) with right-angles in the corners down to 18" (the current depth from the back of my monitor to the front of my keyboard) with beveled corners where I cut the corner at 45 degrees so you have a flat desk when facing the corner and sides angling away from you to parallel the walls. Not sure my flight console idea fits with the beveled corner idea as the consoles my end up partially under the desk and be hard to reach. Height will be 24", which is the height of a typical keyboard tray. I intend to mount our LCD monitors to the wall with adjustable mounting arms, and then likely run kitchen cabinets around the top for storage.

Given that setup, my plan for flight controllers is similar to what lots of folks have posted with pits. I won't really have a front panel, that is likely to interfere with my non-flightsimming work and other games, but I can build a pair of side consoles. These will have a main run at the height of my chair, then an angled back to reach up to about meet the desk. I'll build spaces in them to place the throttle and stick, both now at chair height where the F-16 intended them to be. Most importantly I'll be able to add some additional controls to one or both.

As for controls, what I am specifically hoping to accomplish there is twofold. First, I want more buttons to replace my use of the keyboard, relegating the keyboard to chat usage primarily. I'm over 40 now, I can't remember all these key combos, so what I want is critical flight/combat functions on the stick and throttle, and occasional-use controls on the consoles. Things like guns, flaps, and views need to be on the stick and throttle (views at least until I can get a TrackIR), but other bits like engine start, gear, tailhook, switching formation planes, etc can all be on the console, and labelled as such. I already have much of this set up with the MFP, but again not sure how to conveniently mount this to make it easy to reach and use. If the thing had a VESA monitor mount, maybe I wouldn't be going as far as I am, and I may in fact still figure out how to mount it for certain controls, but I also have my second goal that it does not fit.

The second goal is trim wheels. Right now I'm using one of the 4-way hats on the FighterStick for elevator and rudder trim, and that just doesn't quite have the fidelity or speed of use I'm looking for. There is one dial on the FighterStick (the throttle wheel) I could use, but it's not convenient to reach when I'm actually trying to maneuver. So I want to build in a set of three trim wheels, one for each of the main control surfaces, on the left-hand console where the throttle will sit. This is probably the biggest single driving factor in doing these consoles.

One optional bit I may or may not do, or maybe save for after the basics are all working, is gut the throttle and stick, build the hardware in to the consoles, and replace the circuit boards with another pair of Leo Bodnar boards. The main reason for doing that would be to upgrade to 12-bit precision on the axes, but I might also play around with setting up engine start/stop/WEP switches like nrshida did with his custom throttle (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,297108.0.html). However, I may not want to mess with the durability of the CH controller setup, so I keep waffling on this. I'll deal with it later.

As for specifics, I've ordered the Leo Bodnar board, and I also ordered some buttons to play with. Going to try these: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=EG2551-ND. Not sure yet if they'll work, as my limited electronics knowledge means I don't actually KNOW how to hook them up yet. I am pretty positive that the PC termination means I can plug them into a breadboard, which is great for prototyping but I may not have room between the breadboard and the panel surface to actually run the wires. I'm going to look into buying some PC boards at Radio Shack to see how they work in those. My working theory based on limited searching is that the buttons will plug into the PC board, and then I can solder on the wires on the back, allowing me to mount the buttons on one side pushing up through the panel surface, and have all the wiring on the back/bottom of the PC board. I'm not quite sure that's how it all works, so the next little bit will be spent buying some different materials and trying some different mounting schemes. These buttons have a 7.5mm height for their case (the push surface sticks up a bit over that), so about .28", so I can't have a particularly thick panel surface. If I CAN mount them to the top of the PC board and solder the back, then I can try and find some good stiff 1/4" plywood or something similar to make the panel surface out of. If I CAN'T mount them that way, then I'll have to talk to someone I know with a CNC machine and see about maybe getting a panel done in thin sheet metal or aluminum that I can then mount the board to with spacers, and/or look at different switches that panel mount and have solder lugs where I can solder the wires directly to them and not worry about a board at all.

I also need to figure out the actual "wheel" part of "trim wheel". I know I need a 10k or 100k linear (as opposed to the audio ones that are logarithmic, so be careful there!) potentiometer to plug into the controller board, but what wheel to put on top? I pulled apart an old CD radio we had and stole the volume and tuning knobs from it that look like they might work (similar to the throttle wheel on the FighterStick), but I'm one short AND I need to figure out how to actually attach them to the pots. Also need a good source for potentiometers; Radio Shack has some for like $3, but I don't know how good they are, and other pots with similar specs seem to be $20+ at places like DigiKey, so I'll probably try the Radio Shack ones and then upgrade if I need to.

So I'll be spending some time checking out these buttons and various mounting options to see if they work, and checking out other buttons and mounting options if they don't.

More posts as I make progress and figure some of these details out, along with pictures as I have some. I do welcome advice on any of this, and hope others who have been thinking about this may learn something as well.
-- Greg Stelmack
-- Ex-AW pilot, Gunfighters Squadron

Offline sheperd

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2010, 07:42:58 AM »
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php IMHO one of the best building resources out there.
some stuff may be over your skill lvl but I doubt that, the info is there you just have to look!!!!!!

I look forward to seeing your progress! So let the madness Begin. Some words of advise... plan well, take time and understand that pit building is like a crack habit, addictive, expensive, time consuming, and can cause problems in the marriage. I got lucky with my wife, but she hasn't always been on board with pit building.  I am starting a new full scale F4U build and she is all for it   (a Buddy from church is helping me and our wives have become friends so they  hang out while we build). good luck and God Speed  :salute
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 07:54:11 AM by sheperd »
I can build em better than I can fly em
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Offline MonkGF

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 08:35:22 AM »
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php IMHO one of the best building resources out there.
some stuff may be over your skill lvl but I doubt that, the info is there you just have to look!!!!!!

I look forward to seeing your progress! So let the madness Begin. Some words of advise... plan well, take time and understand that pit building is like a crack habit, addictive, expensive, time consuming, and can cause problems in the marriage. I got lucky with my wife, but she hasn't always been on board with pit building.  I am starting a new full scale F4U build and she is all for it   (a Buddy from church is helping me and our wives have become friends so they  hang out while we build). good luck and God Speed  :salute

Nice site, thanks for the reference.

My wife is also a gamer, and she'll let me know if I stray across any lines, but she is very supportive of projects like this. She would not go for a full pit build in the room, but adding some consoles and playing with controls is fine.
-- Greg Stelmack
-- Ex-AW pilot, Gunfighters Squadron

Offline Reschke

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 12:28:34 PM »
Check out the Pit Builders section over here also....http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/81/1/Pit_Builders.html

Lots of good ideas and thoughts on all of that as well. Best of luck to you.
Buckshot
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Offline Sid

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 06:37:08 PM »
Another good pit site for you: Simprojects.nl

There's also some good books available here: Mike's Flight Deck

Good Luck
Oculus Rift user.

Offline MonkGF

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 07:57:47 PM »
There's also some good books available here: Mike's Flight Deck

Yeah, I saw these books through mycockpits.org, and if I run into many early issues at all I'll be picking one of them up. They look like they are good references, although like most of the sites focus more on Microsoft Flight Simulator and lots of custom IO bus things that are above and beyond what AHII supports (at least if and until HiTech exposes some of the aircraft status data for external programs to use).
-- Greg Stelmack
-- Ex-AW pilot, Gunfighters Squadron

Offline Pollock

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 06:19:21 PM »
I got mine from here http://www.kwikpit.com/kwikpit_kit.htm
It well worth the money for me.  I have some old pics of it somwhere in forums i will try to update my pictures of it .   I have recently added trim wheels and a triple monitor set up.
heres a link to pics of mine before the triple head set up
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,275834.0.html
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 06:24:00 PM by Pollock »

Offline MonkGF

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 01:47:37 PM »
Not much progress here due to remodeling a bathroom and the general time crunch that comes from having kids, but I have figured out my soldering basics and thought I'd pass along the findings for those who are also new to this.

First, I'm using prepunched perfboard with copper-foil soldering material on one side (like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102844#, which is a small version I'm testing on before scaling up). Going with the buttons I bought from digikey, I can put the buttons on one side and not have to worry about how the quarter-inch plywood panel they will poke through mounts, aside from making sure everything has plenty of support. I should be able to screw perfboard to brackets on the inside of the console I'll build using standoffs, but then just lay the plywood panel with labels over it. That also means easy swapping out of panels for other sims.

For the actual soldering, important material tips:
  • 15 or 20 watt soldering iron for this type of electronics work. Of course I'd already bought the 20/40 watt switchable iron when I found this out, but it included the stand and sponge holder so not much money wasted there.
  • 22 gauge stranded wire. I tried solid wire, and it acted like a heat sink and made the soldering difficult. I found it much easier to solder with the stranded wire. 22 gauge appears to be standard for this kind of electronics work. The stranded also seems to fit better in the Bodnar board.
  • .032" rosin-core solder. I tried lead free, again didn't quite melt/flow right.
  • With the buttons I've got and the perfboard, I can just push the wire up from the bottom underneath the button next to each post, then solder and get the wire and post soldered to the board and let some flow in between to make the connection. Much cleaner than trying to push wire through from the front then wrap it around. The solder stays on the backside of the board, does not flow up under the buttons.
  • When stripping the wire, you don't need much exposed on either end, just a small bit to fit into the Bodnar board, and a small amount to push through the PC board. Don't over cut it and leave a bunch exposed.

I might be able to get some pictures up later of my current test board, with the first mess of a button next to my much cleaner second button attempt. But now that most of the soldering testing is out of the way, I need to come up with a layout for the buttons that makes sense, buy a perfboard of the correct size, and then solder in all the buttons. Also need to lay out the measurements for the consoles and construct them.

I also need to do a bit more research on my trim wheels. I finally figured out that 4" spur gears that they use for RC car transmissions will make GREAT trim wheels, and you can put them up against pinion gears of the same tooth pitch (usually either 32 or 48 pitch) that connect directly to the potentiometer posts to drive the actual input. The problem is my mechanical engineering skills lag behind my electronics and soldering skills, so I still need to figure out how to mount an axel through the spur gear and mount that assembly to the underside of a panel so the gear pokes up appropriately for twiddling with. Then I have to get the potentiometer mounting right so the pinion gear is driven correctly, tolerances can be tight here. Or I need to figure out a way to mount the spur gear directly to the potentiometer, but the spur gear has a center hole that is much larger than a typical potentiometer post.

Or I need to find a better trim wheel that has the right size mounting hole for the pot directly  ;) I could probably make a disk of wood or something, but I'm not lit up about that approach.

Now back to it...
-- Greg Stelmack
-- Ex-AW pilot, Gunfighters Squadron

Offline zeromajin

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 07:39:19 PM »
Wow, I will be following this thread, I'm new to the game but already tempted by the idea of do the cockpit thing. And, my step-father (cobbler) has been playing for a long time and wants my help build his own.

Thanks for posting, I'm sure I'll be able to sheer good info from this. +1 rep
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Offline Mad2009

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« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 03:02:56 PM by Mad2009 »

Offline sheperd

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 02:38:24 PM »
I can build em better than I can fly em
http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/vv272/hotwire_2009/?

Offline 007Rusty

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Re: Monk's New Pit
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 03:08:22 PM »
                        
                                               cool set up ... :joystick:


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