RAH66/F22

[Tac]

The f-22 is still a more capable plane than the F-35 or drones for precision attacks on the ground when it boils down to the amount of ords it carries but its not used for that. 

A drone can stay on the air far longer than an F22 and drones allow you to have a dozen in the air compared to one F22 in the air. If you're on the ground and want CAS support would you rather have 2 X f22's dropping bombs and leaving after 20 minutes or 20 drones dropping bombs and providing support for hours at a time?

There's no reason 10 drone pilots can fly 4 or more drones each either. All 4 drones per pilot arrive in a waiting area and go on autopilot loiter while the drone pilot commands one to the combat zone, drops its ordenance, flies it to the loiter zone and switches to another drone...the expended drone autopilots back to an airfield to re-arm. I don't know if this is currently possible but given today's tech I don't see why not.

[CAP1]

A drone can stay on the air far longer than an F22 and drones allow you to have a dozen in the air compared to one F22 in the air. If you're on the ground and want CAS support would you rather have 2 X f22's dropping bombs and leaving after 20 minutes or 20 drones dropping bombs and providing support for hours at a time?

There's no reason 10 drone pilots can fly 4 or more drones each either. All 4 drones per pilot arrive in a waiting area and go on autopilot loiter while the drone pilot commands one to the combat zone, drops its ordenance, flies it to the loiter zone and switches to another drone...the expended drone autopilots back to an airfield to re-arm. I don't know if this is currently possible but given today's tech I don't see why not.

I'D rather have a couple f-22's. real pilots in em to give realtime assessment of the situation. they can adapt faster. they can change their targets faster. a live flown plane is to be feared i think moreso than a drone.

[curry1]

I'D rather have a couple f-22's. real pilots in em to give realtime assessment of the situation. they can adapt faster. they can change their targets faster. a live flown plane is to be feared i think moreso than a drone.

Actually drone pilots are far more effective in the close air support role.  They move slower have a 360degrees of movement camera can see under the plane and have no fear of crashing their plane and no real adrenaline rush. 

[CAP1]

Actually drone pilots are far more effective in the close air support role.  They move slower have a 360degrees of movement camera can see under the plane and have no fear of crashing their plane and no real adrenaline rush. 

if you wanna use that angle, then i'd rather have a good old a-10 in there to support me. thing can turn on a dime, and hand ya 9 cents change, a gun to be feared, and plenty of hardpoints for ordinance mounting.
 peripheral vision of the pilot, and the pilots instincts on scene i don't think will ever be matched by a drone being flown by a guy a half of the world away. the guy flying right over my head sees what's going down, and it's real to him, 'cause he's there. the guy flying the drone.....not so much, as he's in a nice safe warm room.

[Yeager]

One word: Politics

[Babalonian]

Why did these programs get cut so short, and in the Comanche's case get cancelled?  After spending 7 billion to design the Rah66, it gets cancelled when it would cost another 24 billion for all 1200 Helo's to be built?  That's only 3 times the development cost for the entire fleet of what would have been a critically important tool on the battlefield for instant recon information, as well as the ability to approach EAD and suppress and/or destroy them far more easily than using tactical fighters.  After giving the banks the 800 billion for the bailouts, you would think the government would have found a way to to move 10% of that money to critical defense systems like this AND the F22.  Ten percent would have bought ALL 1200 of the Comanche's and ALL 800 odd of the F22's originally ordered.  Instead, the Army has no Helo other than 30 year old Tech Blackhawk's, Huey variants, and AH64's.  The Air Force has twelve squadrons of F22 instead of nearly 100.  And that's if they are all operational at any given time, which is far fetched at best.  The Navy has no new A/C in the pipeline save the F35, and the F/A18e/f will do a better job at some jobs than the F35, and the F18 is a horrible replacement for outer fleet defense for the F14.  A slow, low fuel fraction F18F with AMRAAM missiles, that albeit seem to be a great missle, but not a lot of range compared to the threats out there to the fleet's ships, what with all the new FAST and small anti ship missiles.  WTH is going to happen when the USA is put out of the power projection business, and when CVN task forces' are sent to future hot zones and all the nations threatened merely shrug and carry on.  Scary times if you ask me.

Has the US government decided to throw in the towel against future threats or something?  Where was the wrong turn made?  In the 1990's the Chinese were begging for most favored nation trading status from the USA, and were begging to borrow from the USA and its Arab allies with $$.  How did this situation reverse itself to where the Chinese are lending/buying up the USA, and are coming out with new military systems hand over fist while the USA seems to be cancelling most of the new stuff, including the RAH66, F22, and F35(pos or not).

What I've always admired about America is that despite all of its problems the military has always been the world front runner, especially when it came to advancing warfighting systems.  Firepower and its overwhelming and accurate use after all was largely an American invention.  It's going to be all kinds of suck for all of us in the western world if this stops being the case.

Oh, nevermind, I just can't bring myself to breaking another fragile F-14 lover's heart with some F-18 glory.

[Tac]

if you wanna use that angle, then i'd rather have a good old a-10 in there to support me. thing can turn on a dime, and hand ya 9 cents change, a gun to be feared, and plenty of hardpoints for ordinance mounting.
 peripheral vision of the pilot, and the pilots instincts on scene i don't think will ever be matched by a drone being flown by a guy a half of the world away. the guy flying right over my head sees what's going down, and it's real to him, 'cause he's there. the guy flying the drone.....not so much, as he's in a nice safe warm room.

I don't see how you prefer one pair of eyes sitting on a lot of ordnance... who can only do one pass at a time vs a swarm of 10 drones each with a pair of eyes and carrying ordnance that can can make multiple, independent passes in the time the A10 makes one pass.

The A10 is an amazing plane but ultimately it is only one plane performing doing the job amazingly well versus multiple drones doing the same job very well, 24/7.

[CAP1]

I don't see how you prefer one pair of eyes sitting on a lot of ordnance... who can only do one pass at a time vs a swarm of 10 drones each with a pair of eyes and carrying ordnance that can can make multiple, independent passes in the time the A10 makes one pass.

The A10 is an amazing plane but ultimately it is only one plane performing doing the job amazingly well versus multiple drones doing the same job very well, 24/7.

because the a-10 will not be there alone. he'll have wingmen. half of what they can carry will already be on target by the time they get there, then they can move in close to clean up.
 the pilots in those aircraft will see what is going on, and it will be very real to them. because of this, they will have a sense of urgency to get the job done.
 the pilots flying the drones are safe, no matter what happens. what they see is on a monitor. in essence it'll be on tv. they will not necessarily feel the same sense of urgency to get the job done.

 when it comes down to it, if we're gonna put our people on the ground in harms way, then we dam well better be doing the absolute best that we can to dig em outta trouble when they call for help. to do that, you need to have real people there in realtime. not some kid sitting 5,000 miles away remotely flying a drone.

 for close support..........the a-10 can't be beat. if they aren't available....then bring in the harriers.

I ALMOSGT FORGOT.......

the hog will only need that one single pass.

[flight17]

I don't see how you prefer one pair of eyes sitting on a lot of ordnance... who can only do one pass at a time vs a swarm of 10 drones each with a pair of eyes and carrying ordnance that can can make multiple, independent passes in the time the A10 makes one pass.

The A10 is an amazing plane but ultimately it is only one plane performing doing the job amazingly well versus multiple drones doing the same job very well, 24/7.

do you read what you say...

just a few posts ago you said have 10 drones in the area in standby and pretty much have them all controlled by two person. So at MOST in that situation you will only have 2 a/c overhead. having 10 aicraft just circling is a complete waste of our resources especially when the job can be done by one or two A-10's.

if you want to play endurance game then launch a couple of satelights and position them over the ME. They could give intel for decades.

lets clear this up now, Drones are not flown by people. They are completely automated. UAV's are flown by a remote pilot.

[Penguin]

majority of IED's encountered are 155MM arty rounds when ord is used.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

Yes, there will be some wasted fuel, but the drones sip, while the hog gulps.

-Penguin

[Tac]

do you read what you say...

just a few posts ago you said have 10 drones in the area in standby and pretty much have them all controlled by two person. So at MOST in that situation you will only have 2 a/c overhead. having 10 aicraft just circling is a complete waste of our resources especially when the job can be done by one or two A-10's.

if you want to play endurance game then launch a couple of satelights and position them over the ME. They could give intel for decades.

lets clear this up now, Drones are not flown by people. They are completely automated. UAV's are flown by a remote pilot.

That could be a source of confusion. I am talking about UAV's then (remote controlled) that can switch to AI control for waypoint to waypoint flight.

I am saying that for every 1 manned plane.. be it F16 or A10 there can be 10 drones in the air .. based on cost and human endurance factor (UAV pilot can just switch control to another UAV pilot and go home whereas a manned AC pilot cant). So when CAP1 says the A-10 has wingmen I mean that for every A10 that is flying you can have 10 UAV's flying in the same area delivering more ordnance to separate targets at once. In that situation the UAV/Drone becomes more effective than the A10.

[CAP1]

That could be a source of confusion. I am talking about UAV's then (remote controlled) that can switch to AI control for waypoint to waypoint flight.

I am saying that for every 1 manned plane.. be it F16 or A10 there can be 10 drones in the air .. based on cost and human endurance factor (UAV pilot can just switch control to another UAV pilot and go home whereas a manned AC pilot cant). So when CAP1 says the A-10 has wingmen I mean that for every A10 that is flying you can have 10 UAV's flying in the same area delivering more ordnance to separate targets at once. In that situation the UAV/Drone becomes more effective than the A10.

i understand what you're trying to say.

 but put yourself in the infantrymans shoes. would you feel better knowing that the job is being done with sheer excellence, and being able to actually see the pilot of that a10 as he blasts by, or would you feel better with a remote controlled airplane flown by a guy half way around the world, that has 0 clue of what exactly is going on there?

 and a single a-10 can deliver a devastaing blow to the enemy. putting up 10 of any sort of aircraft to do the job of one is a massive waste.

[flight17]

Another thing about the A-10 is it doesnt need A2G missiles/rockets or bombs to do SERIOUS damage. Its the worlds only flying cannon. Literally, when asked, the designer said it was designed around the gun not the gun being fitted into the A-10 design. Also the A-10 can take damage, if one of those UAV's gets hit its done.

another thing, if we need ten planes in the area, we have ten planes there. There is no need for 10 UAV's just flying around when the job only requires 1 plane whatever type it is.

[Penguin]

As a boot, I'd like to see my seargent calling in air support from his laptop, rather than hope and pray that the Death Santa and his hogs are around.  Furthermore, I wouldn't want that 30mm cannon going off by my buddies, or those who we are trying to protect- not vaporize!

With 10 drones (which have great cameras by the way: FLIR, night vision and TV), every company in the battalion can have at least one, and smaller ones can have 2 or three each!  Instead of having to call the Colonel, I can just give a holler to the Captain. 

With A-10's:

Sarge: Hey, look!  Hajji has formed an angry mob!
Me: Right, I'll get the radio operator.  Hey Luke!  Is the Colonel awake yet?
Luke: Gimme a minute!
Radio: We're sorry, the number you have dialed is no longer availible
Luke: Son of a *****!
Sarge: Looks like no Hogs today, boys, RUN!

With Drones:

Sarge: Hey, look!  It's an angry mob!
Me: Captain!  We could use some help with the mob! 
Captain: *Opens Laptop* *click, click*
Pilot: Eye-in-the-sky-that-makes-Hajjis-cry pain delivery service, how may I help you?
Captain: Yes, we'd like a double order of with a side of awesome sauce
Pilot: *Click* *Click*
BOOM!

See the difference?

-Penguin
 

[CAP1]

it truly scares me some of the stuff i see from our youth.