Author Topic: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results  (Read 1121 times)

Offline Nefarious

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Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« on: January 24, 2011, 04:10:16 PM »
Greetings,

Here are the results by frame for January's FSO

FSO SCORE FRAME 1:


Axis Air to Air Kills:

IL-2 Type  - 8   
La-5FN     - 23
La-7       - 24
P-39Q      - 39
Yak-9T     - 13
Yak-9U     - 15

Total:     - 122 x 2 = 244

*Axis had three Friendly Fire Kills

Allied Air to Air Kills:

Ar 234     - 1   x10
Bf 109G-14 - 16
Bf 109K-4  - 16
Fw 190A-8  - 21
Fw 190F-8  - 6
Fw 190D-9  - 21
Me 262     - 2   x10

Total:     - 81 x 2 = 162 + 30 = 192

*Allies had one Gunner Kill
*Allies had one Friendly Fire Kill

Objects Destroyed/Defended:

Allied Destroyed/Axis Defended

Field 05 Town:     090/110 Points
Field 07 Airfield: 232/056 Points
Field 16 Town:     096/104 Points
Field 83 Airfield: 064/508 Points

Axis Destroyed/Allied Defended

Field 87 Airfield: 133/439 Points
Field 88 Airfield: 288/284 Points
Field 92 Town:     136/064 Points
Field 93 Airfield: 100/188 Points   

Allied Object Points: 1457
Axis Object Points:   1435   

Allied Total: 1649
Axis   Total: 1679


---------------

FSO SCORE FRAME 2:

Axis Air to Air Kills:

Il-2       - 41  x2     
La-5FN     - 8   x2
La-7       - 20  x2
P-39Q      - 15  x2
Yak-9T     - 9    x2
Yak-9U     - 13  x2

Total:     - 196

*Axis had One Gunner/Observer Kill
*Axis had One Friendly Fire Death

Allied Air to Air Kills:

Ar 234     - 2   x10 = 20
Bf 109G-14 - 25  x2  = 50
Bf 109K-4  - 13  x2  = 26
Fw 190A-8  - 15  x2  = 30
Fw 190F-8  - 12  x2  = 24
Fw 190D-9  - 16  x2  = 32
Me 262A-1  - 2   x10 = 20
Ta 152H-1  - 3   x2  = 06

Total      - 208
           
*Allies had Four Friendly Fire Deaths

Objects Destroyed/Defended:

Axis Destroyed/Allied Defended

A88 - Airfield       - 209/303
A91 - Town           - 138/062
A92 - Airfield       - 009/503
A80 - Town           - 166/034
A94 - Airfield       - 026/486

Allied Destroyed/Axis Defended

A06 - Town           - 058/142
V71 - Vehicle Base   - 000/219
A15 - Town           - 110/090
A83 - Airfield       - 175/337 
V82 - Vehicle Base   - 009/210

Allied Object Points: 1740
Axis Object Points: 1546     

Allied Total: 1936
Axis   Total: 1754 


-------------

FSO SCORE FRAME 3:

Axis Air to Air Kills:

Il-2       - 20  x2 = 40   
La-5FN     - 27  x2 = 54
La-7       - 37  x2 = 74
P-39Q      - 10  x2 = 20
Yak-9T     - 19    x2 = 38
Yak-9U     - 00  x2 = 00

Total:     - 226

*Axis had One Friendly Fire Death

Allied Air to Air Kills:

Ar 234     - 3   x10 = 30
Bf 109G-14 - 22  x2  = 44
Bf 109K-4  - 22  x2  = 44
Fw 190A-8  - 4   x2  = 8
Fw 190F-8  - 21  x2  = 42
Fw 190D-9  - 18  x2  = 36
Me 262A-1  - 1   x10 = 10
Ta 152H-1  - 1   x2  = 2

Total      - 216
           
*Allies had One Friendly Fire Death

Objects Destroyed/Defended:

Axis Destroyed/Allied Defended

A02 - Town            - 196/004
A12 - Small Airfield  - 178/109
A80 - Town            - 092/108
A87 - Large Airfield  - 194/378
A90 - Town            - 076/124

Allied Destroyed/Axis Defended

A07 - Town            - 012/188
A69 - Town            - 104/096
A72 - Town            - 108/092
A83 - Large Airfield  - 097/480
V82 - Vehicle Base    - 052/167

Allied Object Points: 1096
Axis Object Points: 1759   

Allied Total: 1312
Axis   Total: 1985



Grand Total:

Allied: 4897
Axis: 5418



The Allies were going into Frame 3 the leaders by a slim margin, but the Axis managed a significant victory in Frame 3 To become the overall winner.

I hope everyone had a good time, Maybe next time for this event we could add the US and British Allies along with the Soviets.

Thanks to the CICs who lead their sides. Congrats and thank you for your participation!

9GIAP VVS RKKA
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Jokers Jokers
WD40



There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline CHAPPY

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 05:05:28 PM »
Thank you for posting.
 :aok

Offline TUK

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 06:44:45 PM »
Allied Total: 1649
Axis   Total: 1679 Frame 1
 :salute TracerX
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 08:37:45 PM »
Woot frame 3! USMC felt like we got a good licking, to be honest, but we still stopped them from hitting the town for all but 12 points out of 188 total!!

Woot a7 defenders!

Offline Husky01

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 11:54:34 PM »
I'm shocked we won frame two, remind me to rush orders more often!

Good fun all  :salute
BearKats
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Offline Reschke

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 04:48:49 PM »
Not sure if our 6 P-39s would have done much damage even if we would have made A7 town but it might have helped. Running into that dang brick wall without seeing it was the killer for us.

:salute German luftwabbles!
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Offline Viper61

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 10:21:35 PM »
Nef - Good scenario, our guys all had fun.

Looking at the stats the air to air kills seems to be fairly close through out the frames.  Distruction to targets is what swung the match itself.  And all of the chatter aside about this plane vs. that plane.... the ordnance carriers were fairly matched in what they could carry or do.  In my opinion it came down to the CIC Strategic planning, Squadron CO's mission planning and coordination's.  And of course the actions of the pilots to either follow orders or follow the intent.  Those things decided the outcome.

To me these highlights the importance of the CIC duties and the CIC's ability to produce a good understandable plan that is easy to execute.

And that is how every FSO should run.  Fair and balanced match ups, equal and even chances to both sides to win or lose.  And in the end one plan will out match the other by just a little bit.

In most FSO "non naval" scenario's the JABO AC aren't the main effort AC and I think this scenario did a great job of forcing this type of mission by not having any heavy lifters.  It was fun and I'd like to see more of these type of scenario's.  Now add some GV's next time  :) 

Offline perdue3

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2011, 12:49:17 AM »
I hope everyone had a good time, Maybe next time for this event we could add the US and British Allies along with the Soviets.


LOL all i can say
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2011, 07:17:43 AM »
LOL all i can say

What's so funny? Historically the war was fought on two fronts and the Luftwaffe saw action against both of them over Germany in the final days of the war. I was considering adding the Western Allies but refrained because the community's demand for an Eastern Front Setup.

Nef - Good scenario, our guys all had fun.

Looking at the stats the air to air kills seems to be fairly close through out the frames.  Distruction to targets is what swung the match itself.  And all of the chatter aside about this plane vs. that plane.... the ordnance carriers were fairly matched in what they could carry or do.  In my opinion it came down to the CIC Strategic planning, Squadron CO's mission planning and coordination's.  And of course the actions of the pilots to either follow orders or follow the intent.  Those things decided the outcome.

To me these highlights the importance of the CIC duties and the CIC's ability to produce a good understandable plan that is easy to execute.

And that is how every FSO should run.  Fair and balanced match ups, equal and even chances to both sides to win or lose.  And in the end one plan will out match the other by just a little bit.

In most FSO "non naval" scenario's the JABO AC aren't the main effort AC and I think this scenario did a great job of forcing this type of mission by not having any heavy lifters.  It was fun and I'd like to see more of these type of scenario's.  Now add some GV's next time  :) 

Thanks Viper61! <S> I like the JABO events to.

There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline perdue3

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2011, 12:33:12 PM »
What's so funny? Historically the war was fought on two fronts and the Luftwaffe saw action against both of them over Germany in the final days of the war. I was considering adding the Western Allies but refrained because the community's demand for an Eastern Front Setup.

It is a video game, but still LOL
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

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Offline oakranger

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2011, 08:48:53 PM »
I was considering adding the Western Allies but refrained because the community's demand for an Eastern Front Setup.



This should be looked at as a possible event.  However, has both the western and eastern allies met in the air fighting the Germans?
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 09:57:58 PM »
It's very different dynamics against Soviet planes and against Western Allies planes...

Vs the Soviets the Luftwaffe has a hard time (look at how many bloody La-7s we have to deal with!!! Faser than a K4 on the deck, more manuverable, climbs just as well). Vs. the Allied planes they have to fly differently. Be it the US planes and they have to play the slow role, engaging in manuvers. Against the RAF planes they have to play the fast runners because they cannot compete for turning.

You throw in Spit16s, Spit14s, Tempests, P51Ds, P47Ms (you KNOW they'll put in more Ms than actually flew historically, you just know it!) and then on TOP of that sandwich the Luftwaffe between them? You're signing a death warrant for a 1-sided gang bang.

It'll be a typical dogpile like in the MAs where you have 2 fast movers and 2 tight turners closing on your tail 2k out. You can't outrun the fast guys, and if you break the turners pop you instantly. There's no balance in that kind of setup.


Plus, it's not often you find soviet planes and western planes over the same battle field fighting the same Luftwaffe forces. They weren't that geographically close until the air war was over and done with.

Offline oakranger

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2011, 09:24:21 AM »
It's very different dynamics against Soviet planes and against Western Allies planes...

Vs the Soviets the Luftwaffe has a hard time (look at how many bloody La-7s we have to deal with!!! Faser than a K4 on the deck, more manuverable, climbs just as well). Vs. the Allied planes they have to fly differently. Be it the US planes and they have to play the slow role, engaging in manuvers. Against the RAF planes they have to play the fast runners because they cannot compete for turning.

You throw in Spit16s, Spit14s, Tempests, P51Ds, P47Ms (you KNOW they'll put in more Ms than actually flew historically, you just know it!) and then on TOP of that sandwich the Luftwaffe between them? You're signing a death warrant for a 1-sided gang bang.

It'll be a typical dogpile like in the MAs where you have 2 fast movers and 2 tight turners closing on your tail 2k out. You can't outrun the fast guys, and if you break the turners pop you instantly. There's no balance in that kind of setup.


Plus, it's not often you find soviet planes and western planes over the same battle field fighting the same Luftwaffe forces. They weren't that geographically close until the air war was over and done with.

Yea, it would be a good old MA furball, but no IJs in it. 
Oaktree

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Offline Squire

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2011, 07:04:03 PM »
Quote
you KNOW they'll put in more Ms than actually flew historically, you just know it!

Had a look at the Friday Squad Ops ETO (15) EF (6) and PAC (22) setups.

The one time we used the P-47N as a P-47M sub in a historical setup (thats not including Stoneys 1945 BoB setup that saw a pile of Jets as well and was fictional) it was limited to 15 per frame max. So its seen either very limited use or very restricted use. In fact since getting the P-47M in Aces High the FSO team has not used it.

In the BOG scenario its in the final frame with 16 players. I think if im not mistaken that will be its SEA debut in AH unless a Snapshot has used it.

It really has not been a big part of SEA use since its inclusion or even before that from what I can see.

Tempest. Same thing. Was used all but once in FSO past Stoneys 1945 BoB setup. It was limited to 15 per frame. Last time an Ardennes setup was done it was excluded from the OOB entirely (A Long December). So its use is extremely rare I would say.

Spit 14. Used three times, again one of which was the 1945 BoB setup. The other was a 12 max limit. One time it was used with no limit in a setup that had Doras and Me262s (Arado Ar234 Blitz setup).

LA-7? Nefs design is the only FSO setup listed as ever using it (which actually surprises me). It was in service in large #s by the Spring of 1945 to say the least. In any case its use is very rare in FSO.

F4U-4? (PAC) used once (max 24)

P-47N (PAC setup). Used once (max 20)

*So the trend is clearly to set a max on those types in the few times they are used. At least in FSO.
Warloc
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin:1945 Scores & Results
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2011, 09:55:13 AM »
No, there have been at least a few 1944/1945 late war setups with allies pounding germany that had roving bands of tempests, spit14s, spit16s, p51ds, late model P-47s (I can't recall if N's were used, would doubt it) and it was a 1-sided setup for the most part.

Not to mention the unhistorical bomber speeds, it makes it THAT much harder in such a "LW vs US/RAF 1945" setup to get past the fighters, and if you somehow manage the bombers just walk all over you.