ar234 question

[FLS]

You're correct it states the 12 degrees is the camera offset from straight down. The drawing shows the guns pointing straight back. It also says a few late production aircraft had the guns illustrated in the drawing. You believe the camera info but not the gun info. The book is correct except where it disagrees with your theory. 

[lyric1]

The drawing shows the guns pointing straight back. It also says a few late production aircraft had the guns illustrated in the drawing. You believe the camera info but not the gun info. The book is correct except where it disagrees with your theory. 

First off you can't determine any angle the guns pointed at based off that drawing there is no actual call out off of a centerline blueprint.

I will stand by the US personal who captured the C model & their statements as to what direction C model guns pointed.

Again i think the book in question in regards to late model aircraft with guns are the C models.

They did not know that at the time though that no B model was fitted with rear guns when that book was printed.

I will find Creek & Smith & see what they have to say & show me the facts that they have.

[MiloMorai]

According to Smith/Creek, pg 87 in their book, the rear firing 20mm cannons were only fitted to the V21 prototype.

[Chalenge]

FLS it is impossible to determine with any accuracy the precise angle at which the guns were to be mounted. However... even given the coarsest look at the thickness of the line and allowing every bias on the side of angled upward... they are still pointed downward. That is according to  comparisons with center datum line.

EDIT: If you have a drawing that you are using other than the ones Lyric has then post them and I will show you precisely what the evidence indicates.

[Chalenge]

@Lyric: Just noted that your image of pg 91 is exactly where FLS said he got the info about the guns. Oddly it is not there in your picture. hmm...

[FLS]

@Lyric: Just noted that your image of pg 91 is exactly where FLS said he got the info about the guns. Oddly it is not there in your picture. hmm...

You'd have to read the image Lyric posted to see the gun reference.

[FLS]

First off you can't determine any angle the guns pointed at based off that drawing there is no actual call out off of a centerline blueprint.

I will stand by the US personal who captured the C model & their statements as to what direction C model guns pointed.

Again i think the book in question in regards to late model aircraft with guns are the C models.

They did not know that at the time though that no B model was fitted with rear guns when that book was printed.

I will find Creek & Smith & see what they have to say & show me the facts that they have.

How exactly do you know what they knew when that book was printed? I think you mean to say that it's your guess that
anything anyone printed that contradicts your theory is wrong.

[lyric1]

How exactly do you know what they knew when that book was printed? I think you mean to say that it's your guess that
anything anyone printed that contradicts your theory is wrong.

As I have said I have bought many books & have done a lot of research based off all of the information when you put it all together?? Well you know the rest.

Your holding on to two brief lines of information from one source & won't even consider buying anything else to review.

So you want to keep rear guns on the 234 great.

Take your information & submit it to Hitech creations & they can compare it to the information I have submitted to them.

Then we will let them decide if & when there is an update as to what will or won't be done.

 
 

[FLS]

Actually I don't care if our Arado 234B has guns or not. I'm guessing that HTC will continue with their current loadout options. I don't feel compelled to email them about it or to buy books that make statements they can't document. How many pilots, manufacturers, designers, and engineers did Smith interview? He started his research 30 years after the war? Price started during the war and had access to everyone available in 1945. I posted that you yourself posted 7 different sources stating that some 234B's had guns but you misrepresent that as if there was only one source. Why do you care if AH has the loadout option of guns that are mentioned in more than the 7 sources you posted?  There is a lot of evidence that most 234Bs did not have the guns. There are many references to some of them having guns. Nobody has shown any evidence that none of them had guns, we just have conflicting statements from reputable sources.

I thought we already agreed to disagree.   

[lyric1]

Actually I don't care if our Arado 234B has guns or not. I'm guessing that HTC will continue with their current loadout options. I don't feel compelled to email them about it or to buy books that make statements they can't document. How many pilots, manufacturers, designers, and engineers did Smith interview? He started his research 30 years after the war? Price started during the war and had access to everyone available in 1945. I posted that you yourself posted 7 different sources stating that some 234B's had guns but you misrepresent that as if there was only one source. Why do you care if AH has the loadout option of guns that are mentioned in more than the 7 sources you posted?  There is a lot of evidence that most 234Bs did not have the guns. There are many references to some of them having guns. Nobody has shown any evidence that none of them had guns, we just have conflicting statements from reputable sources.

I thought we already agreed to disagree.   

I have misrepresented nothing.

[MiloMorai]

lyric1, just remember that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink the water.

[Chalenge]

You'd have to read the image Lyric posted to see the gun reference.

I did. I have also seen plans that you have not looked at given the tone of your posts. Plans that lyric has posted. The 234s gun package in AH are a fantasy pure and simple.

[lyric1]

At long last I have found a photo of the actual rear view as seen through the AR-234B periscope (minus the actual aircraft).

Most likely the forward view as well with the PV1B head?

Good luck finding anything at all behind you with this view.

[Chalenge]

Intersting. I was expecting it to have a collimator appearance to it but this type would be absolutely useless even if it made it onto an aircraft!

Nice work Lyric. 

[lyric1]

Found a lot of information on the BZA dive bombing computer & how it all works.

I think I have enough information to come up with that there was 3 types of periscopes over the life of the AR-234B.


First off this one the RF2B periscope.
This only had a rear view & most likely looked like the 2ND picture below when viewed.
Was only used on recon aircraft early on.





The second type was this one the RF2C periscope.
Notice the ball shaped protrusion on the top of the periscope? I have several photos of this type & could not figure it out until now.
This type was a transition periscope for a rear view as well as a forward view.
It would have had the same view forward & aft as the above 2ND picture.
I think this may have only been used on recon aircraft also?













The third type is what we have in the game now the RF2C periscope with the PV1B head. This was designed with the forward view & was working with the BZA dive bomb computer.



Then the aft view that was designed for rear guns & had all the inverted views as mentioned in this thread prior.




Here is a sketch from the pilots perspective on the forward view through the periscope as he is in a dive using the BZA computer.



Question is now what was the PVB1 rear view like since it was designed to shoot with?

Sadly none of the documents state that.

Few more documents as well.