Author Topic: Is this what Hitech wants?  (Read 24230 times)

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17692
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #510 on: March 07, 2011, 04:33:12 PM »
So ultimately the problem is with the defenders, not the attackers?

Wab






No it's all about having fun, from both sides. Getting run over by the horde isn't fun. Having the horde split into a number of attacks giving the defenders a chance to save maybe one of the multiple bases makes it fun for them as well as the attacking force who if they are remotely skilled should grab bases faster than they do now, increasing their fun as well.

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10165
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #511 on: March 07, 2011, 04:34:14 PM »
How did I throw cabbages?
Austin Powers: Only two things scare me and one of them is nuclear war.
Basil Exposition: What's the other?
Austin Powers: Excuse me?
Basil Exposition: What's the other thing that scares you?
Austin Powers: Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Ardy123

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3417
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #512 on: March 07, 2011, 04:37:23 PM »
So ultimately the problem is with the defenders, not the attackers?

Wab

I generally enjoy fighting hordes but recently, they've been too 'quick' and too large to even get a chance to fight...
As I stated before in other threads, the drop the FH very quickly and take the base before you can get there from another base.
Put simply...

no fight == no fun

they might as well not exist because no one is going to be able to stop them in time, so they will get ignored.
Yeah, that's right, you just got your rear handed to you by a fuggly puppet!
==Army of Muppets==
(Bunnies)

Offline CptTrips

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7938
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #513 on: March 07, 2011, 04:51:14 PM »
No it's all about having fun, from both sides. Getting run over by the horde isn't fun. Having the horde split into a number of attacks giving the defenders a chance to save maybe one of the multiple bases makes it fun for them as well as the attacking force who if they are remotely skilled should grab bases faster than they do now, increasing their fun as well.

Are you saying its physically impossible to launch sufficient aircraft to defend against a horde attack? (Assuming we are not talking about drastically unbalanced team populations.)  Not just hard, but impossible?

Wab

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #514 on: March 07, 2011, 04:56:06 PM »

You never did get around to answering me Wab, by the way.

What is so engrossing about a completely lopsided contest that you'd willingly pay to partake in it?

Would you pay to play football as long as your team could have more players on the field, or would that not be fun for you? And if not, WHY not? What's the difference to you?

Offline ROX

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #515 on: March 07, 2011, 05:01:01 PM »
I am proud to say I'm glad this thread did not turn into an urinating contest.   :rolleyes:

I'm sure THAT is not what HiTech wanted.

Offline CptTrips

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7938
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #516 on: March 07, 2011, 05:01:42 PM »
You never did get around to answering me Wab, by the way.

What is so engrossing about a completely lopsided contest that you'd willingly pay to partake in it?

Would you pay to play football as long as your team could have more players on the field, or would that not be fun for you? And if not, WHY not? What's the difference to you?

Appearently no one could decifer what you were talking about.  Did you read the posts after yours?

Were you talking about local numerical imbalance at the point of the horde attack?  Or where you talking about an entire team that was outnumbered?

Wab




Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Crash Orange

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #517 on: March 07, 2011, 05:03:02 PM »
I don't think I have ever seen an equal balance between all countries fighting each other.  Two are always, if you want to call it ganging, the third country.  All three countries are on the receiving end of this, so I am not making any distinction between countries.  I'm just saying based on the numbers you posted, where was the fighting going on?  If both Knights and Rooks were fighting the Bishop at that time, with minimal fighting between them, then at that given time, the Bishops were actually at a disadvantage, especially if there is Eny involved.

I'm just saying, the numbers are not reflective of what actually is going on unless the map is posted with it.

Exactly.

That's why ENY does nothing whatsoever to address side imbalances. It's possible, even common, to have 2-1 odds against you and a 10+ ENY, or 3-1 odds in your favor and the enemy has ENY, depending on how the players are distributed between countries and between fronts.

Hordeing has nothing to do with overall side balance. Even the lowest-numbered country can get a horde of 30-40 guys together if the other countries' players are all fighting each other.

A formation of B24's can carry 8 1K bombs each for a Total 24 K, even if you only hit at 50% you still only NEED 3 B24s to take down enough for a small field/town. Add 5 guys in fighters to clean up any defender that get out, and a goon you have 9 people.

And then one 262 zooms in from another base and kills the goon, and the whole effort is wasted. Or more likely, 10 defenders up when they see the buffs coming in and now the attackers are badly outnumbered.

You're a base-taking legend in your own mind, Fugi. But you never actually do anything like this, so you have no idea how it actually plays out in the MA. (Do you even play in the MA any more? I can't remember even seeing you on, much less running into you, in the last year at least, and I'm on a lot.) Very little in life ever goes exactly according to plan, and only an idiot assumes it will and leaves no margin for error.

Anyway, it's not the attacker's responsibility to make sure the defenders have fun.

So what you NEED is 9-10 guys, what you bring is 40-50.

Nobody brings 40-50 guys. What happens is you bring 10-15 and another 30-40 tag along or show up later. But there's no way to control that or know it in advance.

With the smaller force you might run into 5 or 6 defenders, but if your hitting 4-5 bases (10 x 4-5= 40-50 guys) at once odds are good your still going to capture a few bases.

Except you don't HAVE 40-50 guys to dispose of like that.

You have an absurdly naive view of how hordes work. I've tried to explain this to you many times before, but you're too stubborn to listen. Hordes in AH are like any other mob. Nobody has 40 guys from one squad on at a time (even 15 on at one time is a very high number for us, 6-10 is the norm, plus we usually have a few regular guests on vox). NOBODY commands a horde of 50 players. You command a small nucleus and the rest just show up. They may or may not be in the mission, if a mission was posted - I often post a mission and get 8-10 guys joining only to see 30 taking off (OTOH sometimes you see only 6 actually taking off). If you're lucky most of them cooperate to the extent of actually trying to do anything useful, if you're unlucky 20 of them dump ords and scream off chasing the first low con they see. If you hit resistance they may stick around to furball and even get bigger, or they may just blow away like so much smoke. OTOH sometimes you'll get 40 well-disciplined guys who all actually cooperate and know what they're doing and it ends up being a slam dunk. There's no predicting it and no commanding it.

There's certainly no dividing it into tactical units beyond the most basic task allocation at the target base (i.e., "Jugs hit town, ponies hit hangars") - and even then half the attackers may or may not listen or do what they're supposed to. The core of guys you know and can count on their having their act together is much smaller, and since they're the only ones you can really count on, you need most of them on the main attack.

If you ever actually tried to execute all the oh-so-neat-and-perfect plans you advocate here, you'd find out that the cat-herding exercise known as running missions in AH isn't anywhere close to as easy or simple as you imagine.

Offline 5PointOh

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #518 on: March 07, 2011, 05:03:11 PM »
Austin Powers: Only two things scare me and one of them is nuclear war.
Basil Exposition: What's the other?
Austin Powers: Excuse me?
Basil Exposition: What's the other thing that scares you?
Austin Powers: Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.
Excuse me, only Shamus and Hajo smell like cabbage.  We still like them though.
Coprhead
Wings of Terror
Mossie Student Driver

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #519 on: March 07, 2011, 05:07:27 PM »
Does it matter?  

To me they are equivelant, although I would problably have a better time fighting outnumbered against a local horde than watch little hordes march around taking bases unopposed. At least with the one scenario there is a fight.

To use the football analogy I think the local hording is roughly analogous to playing 11 on 5. The 5 guys might still have some fun playing, no matter how lopsided the contest is.

What we see in the MA (for the past several years) is analogous to the 5 man team saying "F this" and leaving, and the 11 man team stays on the field to score touchdown after touchdown and rave about how awesome they are.

Just my opinion though, and I'm open to hearing what really makes that fun. It isn't for me, and I don't really understand how it could be, but perhaps it just has never been explained right.

Offline mechanic

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11293
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #520 on: March 07, 2011, 05:08:10 PM »
 :lol
We must often ask ourselves for guidance. What would Austin Powers do in this situation?
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline mechanic

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11293
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #521 on: March 07, 2011, 05:09:42 PM »
Does it matter?  

To me they are equivelant, although I would problably have a better time fighting outnumbered against a local horde than watch little hordes march around taking bases unopposed. At least with the one scenario there is a fight.

To use the football analogy I think the local hording is roughly analogous to playing 11 on 5. The 5 guys might still have some fun playing, no matter how lopsided the contest is.

What we see in the MA (for the past several years) is analogous to the 5 man team saying "F this" and leaving, and the 11 man team stays on the field to score touchdown after touchdown and rave about how awesome they are.

Just my opinion though, and I'm open to hearing what really makes that fun. It isn't for me, and I don't really understand how it could be, but perhaps it just has never been explained right.


Urchin, I totaly agree and I too would like to know what people find fun in that situation.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline 68ZooM

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6337
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #522 on: March 07, 2011, 05:10:07 PM »
:lol
We must often ask ourselves for guidance. What would Austin Powers do in this situation?

SHAG BABY SHAG   :rofl :rofl
UrSelf...Pigs On The Wing...Retired

Was me, I bumped a power cord. HiTEch

Offline Crash Orange

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #523 on: March 07, 2011, 05:12:20 PM »
Would you pay to play football as long as your team could have more players on the field, or would that not be fun for you? And if not, WHY not? What's the difference to you?

The difference is we're not talking about having more players on the field, we're talking about flooding one area to overwhelm the local defenders. Football teams do this all the time, both on offense and defense. Or are you saying that blitzing the quarterback is unsportsmanlike and makes for boring games?

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #524 on: March 07, 2011, 05:12:29 PM »

Anyway, it's not the attacker's responsibility to make sure the defenders have fun.


So what happens when there are no defenders? Is the game still fun for you?

I do mean NO defenders too. Not 1 guy to vulch a couple times, nothing. You just get to roll base after base after base ad infinium.

Is it still fun?