B-17F

[B-17]

ah... my bad. i just know the RAF was operating 20 of them in late '40 and had lost 8 in 3-4 weeks

[AWwrgwy]

The First Official Mission of the 8th Air Force, Mission Number 1, using their own planes, Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses, did not occur until August 17, 1942 when they attacked Rouen / Sotteville marshalling yard in France with 12 aircraft. All returned safely.

The 8th AF flew B-17Es until September 5, 1942. Due to combat losses, brand new B-17Fs of the 92nd BG were used as replacement aircraft for 97th BG losses. In return, the 92nd BG received the 97th's battle weary B-17Es.

Most B-17Fs in the Pacific were stationed at Pearl Harbor for "defense". The first B-17F, sn 41-24446, arrived in the South Pacific August 15, 1942 and was immediately sidelined when propeller governor failed and there were no spare parts available.

The first loss of a B-17F in the pacific, sn 41-24354, occurred on August 26, 1942 as a result of AAA while bombing shipping in Milne Bay, New Guinea from 1500 feet.

Early War Arena: 1939-early1942?
Mid War Arena: late1942-1943?
Late War Arena: All of the above + 1944-1945?

B-17s really don't make the cut for EW at all. Any B-17s. The U.S. barely makes the EW as it didn't enter the war until almost 1942.


wrongway

[Tyrannis]

The 8th AF flew B-17Es until September 5, 1942. Due to combat losses, brand new B-17Fs of the 92nd BG were used as replacement aircraft for 97th BG losses. In return, the 92nd BG received the 97th's battle weary B-17Es.

Most B-17Fs in the Pacific were stationed at Pearl Harbor for "defense". The first B-17F, sn 41-24446, arrived in the South Pacific August 15, 1942 and was immediately sidelined when propeller governor failed and there were no spare parts available.

The first loss of a B-17F in the pacific, sn 41-24354, occurred on August 26, 1942 as a result of AAA while bombing shipping in Milne Bay, New Guinea from 1500 feet.

Early War Arena: 1939-early1942?
Mid War Arena: late1942-1943?
Late War Arena: All of the above + 1944-1945?

B-17s really don't make the cut for EW at all. Any B-17s. The U.S. barely makes the EW as it didn't enter the war until almost 1942.


wrongway

the b17E was built and entered military service in 1941.


entering military service in a AF that became a part of the war in 1941 should qualify it to be included in EW.

but because it didnt see combat service until 1942, then it would need to be perked.

[AWwrgwy]

the b17E was built and entered military service in 1941.


entering military service in a AF that became a part of the war in 1941 should qualify it to be included in EW.

but because it didnt see combat service until 1942, then it would need to be perked.

By that logic we would have F7Fs, F8Fs, and P-80s.

B-17Fs also didn't enter service until 1942. 38 B-17Cs were produced in 1940. 42 B-17Ds were produced in 1941. 512 B-17Es were produced in 1941.

Part of the "unofficial" criteria (just because i can't find a quote) for addition to AH has always been "saw combat at squadron strength."


wrongway

[Pigslilspaz]

So how bout we cut through the crap and get right down to it.  This isn't about what early war needs, or history.  You want a 4 engine heavy in EW

May I suggest the Short Stirling?   

[Ack-Ack]

May I suggest the Short Stirling?   

I think that would be an excellent choice for the EW and also for the MW plane set.

ack-ack

[Tyrannis]

By that logic we would have F7Fs, F8Fs, and P-80s.

B-17Fs also didn't enter service until 1942. 38 B-17Cs were produced in 1940. 42 B-17Ds were produced in 1941. 512 B-17Es were produced in 1941.

Part of the "unofficial" criteria (just because i can't find a quote) for addition to AH has always been "saw combat at squadron strength."


wrongway

not really.

i thought the plane had to ether be in service, or join service in an AF that entered the war. and had to have a combat record in the war. both of which the E model fits.

america entered the war on december 8th. 1941. the b17 E was in service then when america entered the war. 1941 is considered early war therefore would permit it to be aloud in there.


but, because it didnt see combat service until 1942. then that would be why it would be perked. like the p38G and fw190A-5 would.

[Ack-Ack]

but, because it didnt see combat service until 1942. then that would be why it would be perked. like the p38G and fw190A-5 would.

Frankly, the P-38G doesn't belong in the EW plane set.

ack-ack

[Tyrannis]

Frankly, the P-38G doesn't belong in the EW plane set.

ack-ack

the G isent really a big problem in there. you dont see too many people upping one. and those that do dont really fly it right. so it doesnt bother anything.


the fw190 seems more of a EW disruption than the p38 does.

[Ack-Ack]

the G isent really a big problem in there. you dont see too many people upping one. and those that do dont really fly it right. so it doesnt bother anything.


the fw190 seems more of a EW disruption than the p38 does.

The reasons why the P-38G doesn't belong in the EW plane set has nothing to do with it's "capabilities" but rather it's not an early war plane and should be only in the MW and LW arenas.

ack-ack

[Tyrannis]

The reasons why the P-38G doesn't belong in the EW plane set has nothing to do with it's "capabilities" but rather it's not an early war plane and should be only in the MW and LW arenas.

ack-ack

1.i believe they put the p38G in there as a substitute for the p38E.which was in service with the army air corps by 1941.


but of course we dont have the E version, so they perked the G version to make up for that. if we had the E version it prob wouldnt be perked.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=495

[SmokinLoon]

Along with a B-24D. 

This would be a HUGE thing to have.  The D model would be true to my heart. 

[Koski]

keyword. looks isent everything about an aircraft.

each 109 performs differently. and not every one has the same gun package options.

example: the k4 doesnt have the gonzola 20mm option like he g14 does.

and the f4 doesnt have 13mms.

I meant to say, there isnt that big difference between say G2 and G6 and G14 and K4. Lol and ofcourse there are "only" 3 G versions

Yes there is difference in armament BUT so is between the B-17F and B-17G, the nose gun was a big factor in repelling frontal attacks and its importance shouldnt be played down. Also the B-17G was somewhat slower than the F version.

[Tyrannis]

I meant to say, there isnt that big difference between say G2 and G6 and G14 and K4. Lol and ofcourse there are "only" 3 G versions

Yes there is difference in armament BUT so is between the B-17F and B-17G, the nose gun was a big factor in repelling frontal attacks and its importance shouldnt be played down. Also the B-17G was somewhat slower than the F version.

the G2 and G6 are in the game for scenarios, and to act as the mid-war 109's. the g14 has a much better engine than the other two but is also heavier. theres many other varients of the 109 that werent put in the game.

[Motherland]

I meant to say, there isnt that big difference between say G2 and G6 and G14 and K4. Lol and ofcourse there are "only" 3 G versions

Yes there is difference in armament BUT so is between the B-17F and B-17G, the nose gun was a big factor in repelling frontal attacks and its importance shouldnt be played down. Also the B-17G was somewhat slower than the F version.

Between the G and the K series you're looking at a service record spanning from 1942-1945 and at least twice as many aircraft built as total B17 production.
That alone warrants the myriad of variants.

We should still have a G-series/AS or a later version of the G-6...