e-fighting

[FLS]

I've always considered every fight an E-fight.  It doesn't matter if you're B&Z or turning and burning....energy state, yours and his, is going to be a factor in the fight.

By the same token every fight is an angles fight because you need angles to take the shot. You're correct that every fight is a combination of both considerations, the terms simply refer to the primary tactics chosen and or the relative performance differences of the aircraft.

[MickDono]

Nope, you don't need more thrust than drag to e-fight, you just need to have a slightly better thrust to drag ratio than your opponent. You don't need to gain total energy, you just need to lose less than your opponent. Total energy is irrelevant, what matters is your energy relative to the bandit. By losing less energy than your opponent you can gain a significant energy advantage that can eventually be converted to an angular advantage. Some aircraft have characteristics that make them better for this than others.

However, you can achieve an energy advantage even in similar aircraft engagements if you know how. The reason is that thrust and drag are not constant, if you know how they vary you can fly such that your thrust is greater and your drag is less than your opponent. You may not be gaining total energy, but you will gain energy relative to the bandit. As you gain relative energy, you can store it, and eventually spend it by increasing your turn rate for a better position, and then repeat until your advantage is decisive.

Badboy

Hey, Badboy,

just curious, but when you talk about minimising drag and maximising thrust, what techniques should i be using?  Is it just a matter of minimising flap usage, pulling only the necessary G load and wepping when nose up?


Mick.

[FLS]

MickD the slower you fly the more AoA you need to maintain level flight. Increasing AoA increases drag so your thrust to drag relationship changes with speed. Basically you want to avoid flying slower than you need to.

[Oldman731]

just curious, but when you talk about minimising drag and maximising thrust, what techniques should i be using?  Is it just a matter of minimising flap usage, pulling only the necessary G load and wepping when nose up?

It's the little things, too.

Try to climb wings-level as much as possible.

Try to keep roll and pitch separate, rather than combining them.

In the early stages of the fight, remember that you (probably) won't be in shooting position right away (because you're trying to increase the gap between your energy and his), so plan your maneuvers with that in mind.  No need to crank it around to try to get on his tail; indeed, no need to get real close to him right away.

Bullethead used to have a great write-up on the energy fight, don't know if it's still out there somewhere.

- oldman

[morfiend]

Nope, you don't need more thrust than drag to e-fight, you just need to have a slightly better thrust to drag ratio than your opponent. You don't need to gain total energy, you just need to lose less than your opponent. Total energy is irrelevant, what matters is your energy relative to the bandit. By losing less energy than your opponent you can gain a significant energy advantage that can eventually be converted to an angular advantage. Some aircraft have characteristics that make them better for this than others.

However, you can achieve an energy advantage even in similar aircraft engagements if you know how. The reason is that thrust and drag are not constant, if you know how they vary you can fly such that your thrust is greater and your drag is less than your opponent. You may not be gaining total energy, but you will gain energy relative to the bandit. As you gain relative energy, you can store it, and eventually spend it by increasing your turn rate for a better position, and then repeat until your advantage is decisive.

Badboy

  QFT!!

  When one learns how and when to unload the airframe this will help minimize drag! Having watched Badboy fly against an FM2 with a spit16 and seeing him out turn this FM2 with ease and gain an E advantage in the process I'd say everyone should reread  Badboys post and possibly setup a time for him to show you how it's done!


       

[Getback]

Badboy nails it! After all these years playing I can't add much. I will say this though. The details of Badboy's comments are tough to acquire. A good fighter must have great coordination, understanding of his e state and his opponent's e state. Then there's timing. Sometimes you need to use flaps, trim, throttle, and rudder almost simultaneously. Against superb players a delay or or an over excited yank will cost you fast. I can tell a true ace from 3k away. He's flying so smoothly and seems to have a constant state of e and he never tries to disengage.

[df54]

     "maneuvers no more than necessary."  Can i assume this means ''lag pursuit until conditions are more suitable
     (energy advantage) for lead pursuit (which will bleed energy depending on plane, g-load etc.). I have a bad
     habit of expecting specific answer to a general question sorry about that   

[FLS]

You can take "maneuvers no more than necessary" literally. It simply means do what you need to do without anything extra or unnecessary. If you need to turn then turn as hard as you need to but don't turn harder than you need to.

Whether or not you fly lag pursuit is a different issue.

[JunkyII]

You can take "maneuvers no more than necessary" literally. It simply means do what you need to do without anything extra or unnecessary. If you need to turn then turn as hard as you need to but don't turn harder than you need to.

Whether or not you fly lag pursuit is a different issue.

There have been many times I found I turned too hard, happens alot fighting K4s, Doras, and LAs...Ill have E+ on them but then try too hard to saddle and go about E= at like 400 600 out.....with tators in a K4 that makes it tricky

[33Vortex]

Turning too hard is a very common mistake. If you're in a aircraft which turn well the mistake is less obvious but if you fly something like a 190 it becomes very obvious. Any and all planes can E fight, the later spitfires do it extremely well but few players fly them that way.

Been using manual trim for 4 years now and it helps a lot because you develop a feel for the energy state of your aircraft. I have a specific setting for combat, which in the Dora means trimming it for speed, nose heavy. In the 109 flying with manual trim means a lot of work, which is one of the reasons I just don't like it. It's not built for speed. However generally speaking, if you can work in the additional workload of using manual trim and make it natural for you it is superior to using the AH "combat trim" autotrim function.

The only planes I fly in the MA are the 190 and 109 series with heavy favor towards the 190s and Ta152. So I guess you'll have to take that into consideration whenever reading my posts.