Barrel roll.

[Sonicblu]

I am having a hard time with the Rolling scissors. I have been away awhile and can't seem to get back to where I was when I left.

1. Im in the rolling scissors. Same planes. I have lower e state than attacker. Where do I place my lift vector? lead, lag, or pursuit?

2. Ok I have a little bit more e. I can see Im lossing the the rolling scissor. Where should I try to keep my lift vector?

Thanks.

3. Same E states. Where do I place my lift vector? What should it look like when Im looking out the top of my canopy?

I saw bad boys post just need a bit a clarification.

[boomerlu]

I always go in lag pursuit until I have built up enough distance to where I can pull my nose into lead for a shot. In other words, I go lead only after I've won the scissors.

[shiv]

I am having a hard time with the Rolling scissors. I have been away awhile and can't seem to get back to where I was when I left.

1. Im in the rolling scissors. Same planes. I have lower e state than attacker. Where do I place my lift vector? lead, lag, or pursuit?

2. Ok I have a little bit more e. I can see Im lossing the the rolling scissor. Where should I try to keep my lift vector?

Thanks.

3. Same E states. Where do I place my lift vector? What should it look like when Im looking out the top of my canopy?

I saw bad boys post just need a bit a clarification.

Hard time believing you're getting outscissored Sonic,you usually do that to me. But I've always heard lag going up lead going down a lot, and it seems to work.   My take:

1. Im in the rolling scissors. Same planes. I have lower e state than attacker. Where do I place my lift vector? lead, lag, or pursuit?
 - Lag still, force him to commit and make him burn his e. Go up as much as you can while avoiding him is the key on the reverse or so I hear. I'd like some verification on that though. I think I make the mistake of going for angles too early, trying to figure it out.

2. Ok I have a little bit more e. I can see Im lossing the the rolling scissor. Where should I try to keep my lift vector?
 - Go up and turn it into a rope, I'd be trying to get back down for a shot pretty early so he can't recover some E. And if he doesn't go for the rope you can at least reset the scissors.

3. Same E states. Where do I place my lift vector? What should it look like when Im looking out the top of my canopy?
- Lag going up lead going down, for the down leg using rudder to swing your nose in front of him. So keep lift vector on con on way which means you're pointed behind him, and then kick it in front on way down.


Interested to hear what the trainers and etc have to stay, I'm still slowly learning.

Welcome back Sonic btw <S>

[lulu]

Boy, look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5FPr9issOQ



 

[Sonicblu]

Thanks shiv.....ya before I stopped flying all the time I was doing great with the scissors. It's weird though couldn't fly a rolling scissors the last couple of nights. I can identify what's going on and see the bandit go into a barrel roll I just can't compete even in easy mode.

I will save the films and post.

Thanks boom and lulu I will try lag I've been placing my lift vetctor in pure pursuit and it just puts me out in front.
I've seen the training videos I think they are well done I just need clarification. I looked at it again and it looks like what shiv said lag up lead down.

Thanks again.

[boomerlu]

Sonicblu - what shiv said may be right, I don't know. I've always found that lag all the way is what works for me. I'll be trying lag up lead down though, perhaps it's faster to get guns on.

[Getback]

I was told center vector on the scissors. I rarely use the scissors. No reason just don't think of it. Then I've tried it before and it didn't work out so well.

The barrel roll, such an easy concept but wow I have not mastered it. I've seen some people use it so very well. Great reversal maneuver. Maybe we can get with Rud3boi on these. Not sure he uses the Barrel roll though.

[mtnman]

I've never found a simple formula for pursuit that works for me in a barrel roll/rolling scissors/barrel roll defense.  What I do is adjust my pursuit based on my needs at the moment.  I may need to pull lead pursuit to fall behind my target...

I'm not consciously thinking lead/lag/pure while I'm maneuvering, I'm just intently watching my opponent and flying to a place right behind him, and using whichever pursuit curve I need at that moment to do that, and I'll change it by the second if I need to.  I'm using the barrel roll "offensively" from a defensive position.  I'm not using it to dodge getting killed, so much as a tool to get behind my opponent for a shot (which means I need speed to follow, maneuver, keep my opponent in guns range following the roll.  AT the top, I often just roll, with no elevator at all, but a whole lotta rudder.

A few tips-

Keep your speed up, but "reasonable".  Don't get super-slow.  The barrel roll doesn't work by flying slower than your opponent, it works by flying a different path than your opponent.  You have more choices when it comes to doing that if you have reasonable speed. 

Don't just do a barrel roll in front of your opponent, because you'll be an easy target.  Get him coming from the side, at least a bit.  Or even from the front a bit, if you can.  It helps fool him into rolling with you, and makes you more tempting.

Keep it brief.  Do your barrel roll in such a manner that you don't need to use 3,4,5 of them to get behind the guy.  Try to be done with that stuff after a roll or two.  Be more aggressive with your first roll. 

Here are a few clips of barrel rolls.  Watch it from my views to see how the pursuit mode changes.  It's hard to describe, easier to see.  Lots of different rolling scenes. 

http://www.4shared.com/file/rVA77Rz8/DREDLOCK_190D9_BRD_and_RatCH_N.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/wuxWi7MV/P38_overshoot.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/I27fUfmx/Shawk_1A_vs_1A.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/h-4VeyW-/Good_fight_with_Solar10_1259.html