262 peer

[Guppy35]

which one, the blenheim or the beau?

Points to Avatar and the patch in my Sig that inspired the MILF guys

[JOACH1M]

Points to Avatar and the patch in my Sig that inspired the MILF guys

thank you for the corrrect sig!

[dirtdart]

Some of the comments got me thinking about the volksplane there, did they have a more stellar service record than the meteor?  Did a He-162 ever shoot down an enemy fighter? 

[MORAY37]

Some of the comments got me thinking about the volksplane there, did they have a more stellar service record than the meteor?  Did a He-162 ever shoot down an enemy fighter?  

Some sources quote up to 3 kills in the very last days of the war.  And yes, the Salamander was in squadron strength, as well. It was also the first operational fighter to use an ejection seat.  It actually met other piloted aircraft, AND was in squadron service....  

Quote is from "World War Two Fighting Jets"

During the work-up period He 162 pilots had
orders to avoid enemy aircraft whenever possible. With Allied fighters conducting frequent offensive sweeps over every part of the territory still held by German troops, however, such contacts were inevitable. On 15 April Leutnani Rudolf Schmitt of I. /JG 1, a pilot straight out of flying training making his fourth flight in the He 162, reported that he encountered a Spitfire but successfully avoided combat.

On 19 April a He 162 pilot was credited with the
first aerial victory while flying the new jet fighter, shortly before the same aircraft became the first He 162 lost in air combat. Feldwebel Guenther Kirchner of Ist Gruppe was credited with shooting down a British aircraft, after the pilot of the latter was taken prisoner and told his captors that he had been shot down by one of the new jet fighters. On his way back to base, however, Kirchner's own aircraft crashed and he was killed . That is the German side of the story.

The 2nd Tactical Air Force lost a number of
aircraft over enemy territory on that day and from British records it is not possible to confirm or refute the claim that one of them was shot down by a He 162. The loss of the German jet fighter does find confirmation from British records, however. During a strafing attack on Husum airfield Flying Officer Geoff Walkington, flying a Tempest of No. 222 Squadron, reported
encountering an unidentified jet aircraft with twin fin and a single engine - obviously an He 162. Walkington went after the enemy machine but it was very fast at low altitude and even at 360 mph he was unable to close the distance. The German pilot got safely clear, but then he made the fundamental mistake of entering a sweeping turn to starboard which allowed the Tempest to close to within firing range. Walkington fired a series of short bursts at the German aircraft and saw his opponent suddenly enter a spin which continued until it crashed into the ground.

On 26 April Unterofizier Rechenbach was
credited with the destruction of an unspecified
enemy aircraft and his victory was confirmed by at least two independent witnesses. Again, this was a day when the 2nd Tactical Air Force lost several aircraft over enemy territory and the claim cannot be confirmed or refuted from British records. Early in May II./JG 1 moved to Leck to join the Is t Gruppe, and on the 4th the two Gruppen amalgamated into a single operational He 162 unit, Einsatz-Gruppe JG 1 under the command of Oberst Herbert Ihlefeld . That morning Rudolf Schmitt claimed the destruction of a Typhoon near Restock, and this time there is clear verification of the victory from British records. The 'Typhoon' was in fact a Tempest of No. 486 Squadron piloted by Flying Officer M. Austin, who parachuted to safety and was taken prisoner. The fact that the novice German pilot had been able to shoot down
one of the Royal Air Force's best fighters illustrates the Heinkel's formidable combat potential.

[Debrody]

The 163 was a step back in every way, compared to the 262. But still played as much role as the gloster 

[MORAY37]

Double.

[MORAY37]

The 163 was a step back in every way, compared to the 262. But still played as much role as the gloster  

Ummm not so much, sorry.  The numbers don't play out with respect to what I think you meant as the He-162, not Me-163.

He-162 had a top speed only 18mph less than the 262, at 522 mph. It was lighter, much more maneuverable, and had very good aerodynamic properties.  

The Gloster Meteor Mk1, for comparison, topped out at around 410 mph.   The Mk III (wartime version) around 465-495mph (depending upon source, and also whether the version had lengthened nacelles fitted).  The Meteor III still had the roll rate issues, and control limiters placed on it.  It wasn't even cleared for aerobatics.  It was horribly unstable as a gun platform, and the nose snaked constantly when tracking.  These issues were corrected, post-war, but that isn't the version you're talking about so highly.  It should speak volumes that they were held back, so far from actual combat.

Capt. Eric Brown Chief Naval Test Pilot at RAF Farnborough 1944-1949... C.O. Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight 1945-1946:

"Pedestrian compared to the 262. The Meteor wasnt in the same class. The Meteor 4 picked up quite a bit and was moving in the right direction but neither of them rose to the challenge of beating the Me 262. The Vampire the first jet to land on a carrier would never have kept up with the Me 262."

Also, unlike the Meteor, the He-162 actually flew against other aircraft that had pilots, killed some, and was in full squadron service at the end of the war...not arguing for inclusion, but it is a much better bird than the Brit.

[Debrody]

oops im sorry, i meant, 162.
The 162 had only 1 engine, what is inportant couse those days jet engines werent so reliable, see Nowotny's death.
Also, from aerodinamic viewpoint, the 262 used more advanced features, just like the angled back wings (sorry for the poor english).
It could be well-constructed tho.
They played about the same (almost zero) role in the war.

[Krusty]

The swept wing was an accident. They needed to push the weight back, so they cranked the wings backwards.

The 163 is lighter and has less range, but it could actually engage the enemy fighters. The 262 could not claim this. If it made any manuvers other than a nose-down run it would be shot down by vastly better turning planes. It was killer not a fighter. The 162 was potentially both.

It also weighed a heckuva lot less, needing only 1 engine on the frame. The engines were not doubled on the 262 because of reliability. They weren't powerful enough otherwise.

[MORAY37]

oops im sorry, i meant, 162.
The 162 had only 1 engine, what is inportant couse those days jet engines werent so reliable, see Nowotny's death.
Also, from aerodinamic viewpoint, the 262 used more advanced features, just like the angled back wings (sorry for the poor english).
It could be well-constructed tho.
They played about the same (almost zero) role in the war.

Yes, one engine is important....  But not in the context of AH.  No mechanical failure is modeled.  Basically, the He162 is a lighter, MUCH more agile 262, with 18 mph less top end.  It would have been a real issue, had they gotten it into service with decent pilots.  It had the ability to deal with fighters, which the 262 did not possess.  The angled wings of the 262 were also an accident. 

Again, I'm not pushing for the 162, just by the criteria that they have set forth for inclusion, it fits, where the Meteor does not.

[Debrody]

The swept wing was an accident. They needed to push the weight back, so they cranked the wings backwards.

Havent know it, thanks

[Krusty]

Havent know it, thanks

I might be wrong on the facts. It was either weight shift, or it was to shift the landing gear further back. One of the two.

[Reaper90]

+10 on both the Meteor and the He 162, at about 80% or so of the perk price of the 262...

 

[JOACH1M]

I wouldn't mind a 162 at all either

[dirtdart]

I might be wrong on the facts. It was either weight shift, or it was to shift the landing gear further back. One of the two.

Yeah I am going to have to go home and read up on that one.  I am pretty sure it was researched and done for flight characteristics and not just to solve a schematic problem.  The were knee deep in areo research.  Swept wing goes back to the 20s...  Actually applying it to a/c and making it work is a different story.  MTF.