F4U1A vs. 190D

[33Vortex]

I think he's being quite factual.  Pretending you're Marseille in a D9 (any 190 really) is very difficult.  It is much better suited for those who emulate Hartmann.

I didn't say that it was easy, nor am I pretending anything. I just can't relate to people who somehow think it's lame to extend or even disengage from combat because you're in a unfavorable position, it's routine in ACM. If you can't catch the guy, good for him. Sometimes I disengage solely because I don't like the positioning, speed or angles only to come back unexpectedly. There is no logical reasoning behind laying the blame on me because someone else decide I'm no longer a threat and decide to scan a different section of the sky. They are to blame for they made a bad decision in not paying attention. In real life dead people don't talk. In AH they come back and nag, or post away on the bbs pretending to be hotshots. These are facts and I do believe we can all agree on them because it should be obvious.

I rarely engage in these bbs discussions because they are largely fruitless. If someone knowledgeable despite these facts decide to enlighten the mob with accurate information the ignorant ones will come back and take a dump on him as a thankyou for sticking out his nose. Unless he happens to have a background in the RAF or USAF then they revert to humping his ankles. On the bbs everyone are their own expert, and I'm not trying to tell people otherwise. It really is a waste of time.

So in conclusion I'll tell you that the F4U, regardless of type, will own a FW190D any time if the pilot has enough skill and brains.

[Delirium]

Air combat in WW2 wasn't anything like air combat in Aces High. The D-9 brings its 'real historical strengths' to the game, but those are not the strengths that offer a real performance advantage in the game.

Urchin hit it out out of the park with this statement.

Very few pilots from WWII were real 'killers', most of them were inexperienced and scared kids where a moderate speed advantage over their rivals also increased the margin of safety. In Aces High, you'll find those that 'yank and bank' know the edge of the envelope much better than their historical counterparts, mostly from repetition.

[Vudak]

I didn't mean "pretending" to come off as an insult - I was under the impression that we are all pretending one thing or another in this cartoon airplane game.  I do think that one camp of players "defends" their actions saying "look at hartmann!" while another group says, "look at Marseille."  You apparently fall into the Hartmann camp.

I'm not making judgments on that one way or another.   This isn't the forum for them.

I didn't say that it was easy, nor am I pretending anything. I just can't relate to people who somehow think it's lame to extend or even disengage from combat because you're in a unfavorable position, it's routine in ACM. If you can't catch the guy, good for him. Sometimes I disengage solely because I don't like the positioning, speed or angles only to come back unexpectedly. There is no logical reasoning behind laying the blame on me because someone else decide I'm no longer a threat and decide to scan a different section of the sky. They are to blame for they made a bad decision in not paying attention. In real life dead people don't talk. In AH they come back and nag, or post away on the bbs pretending to be hotshots. These are facts and I do believe we can all agree on them because it should be obvious.

I rarely engage in these bbs discussions because they are largely fruitless. If someone knowledgeable despite these facts decide to enlighten the mob with accurate information the ignorant ones will come back and take a dump on him as a thankyou for sticking out his nose. Unless he happens to have a background in the RAF or USAF then they revert to humping his ankles. On the bbs everyone are their own expert, and I'm not trying to tell people otherwise. It really is a waste of time.

So in conclusion I'll tell you that the F4U, regardless of type, will own a FW190D any time if the pilot has enough skill and brains.

[33Vortex]

I do think that one camp of players "defends" their actions saying "look at hartmann!" while another group says, "look at Marseille."  You apparently fall into the Hartmann camp.

I honestly don't understand how you come to that conclusion. It is no matter to me.

[Vudak]

I honestly don't understand how you come to that conclusion. It is no matter to me.

Well, read up on how they both approached air combat, and then re-read the posts in this thread where you have described how you approach air combat.

[33Vortex]

I respectfully disagree, and am not unfamiliar with the pilots you mentioned.

[Ardy123]

Marseille = Famous for having 'grizz' like aim and made slashing attacks at Allied Lufbery formations.
Heartman = Stalked from above, dove in with the sun on his back, killing in one pass and shooting when super close.

Its hard to compare their styles because their styles developed as a reaction to the environment they were fighting in and the planes they attacked.

[Vudak]

Marseille = Famous for having 'grizz' like aim and made slashing attacks at Allied Lufbery formations.
Heartman = Stalked from above, dove in with the sun on his back, killing in one pass and shooting when super close.

Its hard to compare their styles because their styles developed as a reaction to the environment they were fighting in and the planes they attacked.

I'd say one was famous for taking stupid risks while the other was not.

[TequilaChaser]

I stopped reading after the Urchin/Vortex33 debate, but

Hey Noah17,

you said you usually end up down in the weeds in the F4U-1A?  if so, the F4U-1A is faster than the FW190D9 under 2.5K Alt...... that is one place that the F4U1A will ultimately wear out the 190D9 , when fighting under 2.5K alt

hope this helps

TC

[Noah17]

Pervert, I honestly thank you for trying to add to the thread. I complimented you earlier because it was truly a good shot however I didn't intend to make this thread about that particular sortie. I had flown a bunch that day and in a few different areas of the map. It just happened that there were a couple more 190D's around that day. I've been in flight sims/AH for about 1 1/2 years now and have had many experiences with the Dora but had never bothered to ask until now so, if it appeared that it was any reflection upon you or that particular sortie it was unintended and my apologies.

Vudak earlier said that the style of flying that would be more successful here is Hartmann like; I agree....Of course you can fly it like you want to.....All I've been trying to figure out is other than the rope or, shooting while unseen what are some great ways to land kills quickly in the 190D and, if so will it be useful for the F4U jock? If you're constantly trying to rope people that will get you killed in an area congested with bad guys; it's time consuming. As, you're slow at the top somebody will come along co-alt and kill you. Or if you have to make 3 - 4 passes to get someone slow; while your doing so someone again comes along and kills you or chases you away.

A 51 or F4U is better at the BnZ because they have a better combination of roll AND pull. Any 190 will roll better than those 2 but, when you're done rolling you're still gonna need your elevator's. In a dive either of these 2 can pull the nose on a target while the 190 is giving you the "buffet" noise when you pull more than a little. If you use energy saving moves/vertical turns the F4U retains energy so well that you can sidestep the 190 almost all day if you're 1 on 1. As much as he is waiting for me to go too vertical and rope myself, I'm waiting for him to pull too hard in a turn and stall or, if he's diving on me go too far below me and then I'm above chasing him. Of, course if there is a big mix of good and bad guys there are too many variables. I think communication/check 6 here is even more important than the plane or individual skill.


I don't want to thread to be about who is right and who is wrong, I think everybody has made some interesting points. I'm just trying to learn something new.
Salute All!!

[Noah17]

I stopped reading after the Urchin/Vortex33 debate, but

Hey Noah17,

you said you usually end up down in the weeds in the F4U-1A?  if so, the F4U-1A is faster than the FW190D9 under 2.5K Alt...... that is one place that the F4U1A will ultimately wear out the 190D9 , when fighting under 2.5K alt

hope this helps

TC

No way?!?!? Huh? I thought it (190D) was second fastest on the deck after the LA?
And yes that would help! LOL
According to the speed charts 190d is faster w/WEP.

 

[Yenny]

I lost about a good 1000 190D9s tryin to figure how to turnfight it. Conclusion is it shouldn't be turnfight against anything but the BnZ planes like it. IE: 190s, P51 ( though good tnbner will work the hell outta other 190s, good thing most AH 51 sux at tnb ), Tiffies. People can moan and cry about 190 not engaging in a tnb 1 v 1, especially if they're in spitty and brewies talking smack. Just ignore em and don't fall for their game. Now if you were in a 109s then hell tnb all day. E fight til you're outta E then tnb til you die xD

[Lusche]

you said you usually end up down in the weeds in the F4U-1A?  if so, the F4U-1A is faster than the FW190D9 under 2.5K Alt.....

Only at MIL, not under WEP.

[moot]

No way?!?!? Huh? I thought it (190D) was second fastest on the deck after the LA?
And yes that would help! LOL
According to the speed charts 190d is faster w/WEP.

 

Keep in mind though that 2.5k is almost nothing, so fairly regular zooms will take you out of that advantageous altitude layer.
I checked the charts and according to those it's only for MIL.  WEP'd the D9 is faster.



dang, snails are faster than me.

[pervert]

You can match any turn radius with roll, and the tighter they turn the better it is for the dora. The concept of a shaping a vertical roll to match a horizontal turn elludes 90% of the ma imo. Noah thats no problem mate. I am a big fan of finding out the reality of a situation you should film your sorties and review  i found that what really happens and what i thought happened are rarely the same. This is the point i was trying to make sorry if it came across in the wrong way mate. <S>