Here Come the French!

[Reaper90]

so you're advocating the murder of 6 million non-combatants? and you really dont have a problem with that?

RT, look at it like this.... pacman is young... at the age where certain sensabilities may not be developed yet.... see Khmer Rouge fighters as an example of early teens with guns and license to conduct war at their discretion as an example....

No offense intended Peter, when I was your age if I had been put in front of the launch controller and given the nuclear launch codes I probably woulda nuked a few hundred million people and not thought twice about it.... as you get older it sometimes becomes a little easier to draw the distinction between a people and their leaders...... and think differently about how to deal with one or the other....

[RTHolmes]

yeah I know, I was just posing the question so he could work it out for himself

[Plawranc]

Im aware that my logic may seem a bit blunt, but to me War is nothing more than the embodiment of the Human race. Every single factor in Human evolution has been affected by it in some way.

But what I do not understand is, we have an enemy, we have a reason and we have the means to defeat them. Now if this was an age where conventional war was still applicable, I would see a HUGE problem with total extermination. However, in this age we are fighting idealogical extremism. You cannot fight it as its whole purpose is to glorify death. Therefore the only solution is to remove them entirely.

It may seem harsh, but to quote an Emperor of Rome DIRECTLY

"The greatest mistake I made was to rule fair and just, by loosening the grip of tyranny and oppression, I left myself open to defeat on the battlefields of both war and politics. Alas to maintain the order of things I must make up for this with brutality"

Tiberius Drusus Cladius.

If there is to be an End to war, the end must be either total annhilation, or total disarmmament. And to quote a one Albert Einstien

"As long as there are men, there shall be wars"

[moot]

However, in this age we are fighting idealogical extremism.

This age only?  What would you call the spanish inquisition?  The Crusades? etc

You cannot fight it as its whole purpose is to glorify death.

You can fight it with soft power.  Hollywood movies, jeans, cigarettes, porn, rock & roll, etc.  And there's plenty of glorifying death in the rest of the world, e.g. ageism trance in western world.

"As long as there are men, there shall be wars"

Or sports, sex, and other peace time war-making.

[bozon]

If it was not a major European country that is doing the airstrikes it would have been considered illegal and bordering war crimes.
France is intervening in an internal Libyan struggle to change the ruler of the country.  What Gadafi is doing is not different than what any other tyrant out there did at some stage of his career, he is not trying to genocide is people, nor is this ethnic cleansing of any kind. Double standards are at play here, but that is the nature of things.

Let face it, no Euro country or the US give a tiny little piece of poop what happens to the Libyan people. I can make a long list of much worse genocides and atrocities that could have been prevented or stopped by western military force in recent years, if they cared about humanity. The only thing that makes France intervene in this one and not another is a combination of interests, political situation, eagerness of generals and the relative risk-free prospects of the endeavor.

Having said that, WTFG France!

[-tronski-]

France is intervening in an internal Libyan struggle to change the ruler of the country.  What Gadafi is doing is not different than what any other tyrant out there did at some stage of his career, he is not trying to genocide is people, nor is this ethnic cleansing of any kind. Double standards are at play here, but that is the nature of things.

This is a mistake

The UN/Nato is intervening in a civil war where there is no benefit or end game. Gaddaffi whether we like him or not is putting down an armed insurrection - an insurrection which was in the process of losing the war, so unless French marines, or an American MEU are planning to land there is no point to this whole exercise. The dismantling of Gaddaffi's regime is not going to occur by airpower alone, and the rebels are too disorganised and hardly likely to be able to advanced on a more pissed off Gaddaffi (if thats entirely possible) without direct UN/Military help- thats assuming theres any real semblance of a rebel leadership and assuming that what leadership there is doesn't end up worse than Gaddaffi already is now.

 Tronsky

[VonMessa]

And Americans wonder why Europeans dislike them...

I've never wondered 

[ozrocker]

According a report I just saw on BBC-America, the opposition group's spokesman confirmed it was a rebel MiG 23 that was shot down by a SAM over Benghazi.

ack-ack

I hear the rebels shot down one of their own. How do you say oops in Arabic?

                                                                                 <S> Oz                   

[Slash27]

I've never wondered 

And if they are so sophisticated as to make generalisations about us all then the hell with them.

[VonMessa]

And if they are so sophisticated as to make generalisations about us all then the hell with them.

 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

This age only?  What would you call the spanish inquisition?  The Crusades? etc

Crusades you could fight against. Fundamentalists are infiltrating the society from within like a cancer that you can't just cut away.

You can fight it with soft power.  Hollywood movies, jeans, cigarettes, porn, rock & roll, etc.  And there's plenty of glorifying death in the rest of the world, e.g. ageism trance in western world.

Or sports, sex, and other peace time war-making.

Uhh? You just about listed the things that are considered sinful by the fundamentalists and getting caught with that stuff may warrant a public beating as a punishment. The fundamentalist feels so stressed with the limitations of his life that he must project it as violence towards women, family members and anyone else who 'dares' to live a regular life i.e. the life that's not allowed for the fundamentalist in fear of God.

"I'm not allowed to have fun, so I must force everyone else to stop having it too"

You gotta wonder what is going on in the womens heads when they support fundamentalism despite knowing it will mean them not having human rights at all. None.

[Motherland]

Im aware that my logic may seem a bit blunt,

It's not blunt, it's immature nonsense.

However, in this age we are fighting idealogical extremism.

No, we're fighting a dictator's ability to wage war on his people.

If there is to be an End to war, the end must be either total annhilation, or total disarmmament. And to quote a one Albert Einstien

"As long as there are men, there shall be wars"

These lines are, in a sense, contradictory- first you say that you should exterminate entire populations to end war, and then you say that war will never end as long as there are two men to fight.

[Vudak]

Maybe he meant to imply "Total War" rather than "total annihilation."  I could hop on the "total war or no war" bandwagon, but I can't imagine anyone would seriously advocate annihilating a population.

Not to put words in his mouth, but just to give him benefit of the doubt.

[Yossarian]

However, in this age we are fighting idealogical extremism. You cannot fight it as its whole purpose is to glorify death. Therefore the only solution is to remove them entirely.

What makes you think this?  Al Qaeda's aim (I'll use them as a placeholder for any takfiri retard-squad) is to accomplish their goals.  So no, it's whole purpose is not 'to glorify death' - that's just incorrect, no buts about it.

And there are very effective non-violent ways to fight them.  Al Qaeda more or less depends on recruiting more people to carry out their missions.    Essentially, they snatch up vulnerable young people using extremist propaganda that you can easily find on the interwebs or on YouTube if you're interested (stuff like look at America, it's so evil, blah blah blah), and convince them that violence is the only option to counter America/the west.  People like this have issued fatwas (no, a fatwa is not a death warrant - it's basically a religious decision made by a competent scholar [although the definition of competent will probably vary widely, especially inside groups like Al Qaeda]), which can be summarised as: 'Al Qaeda is full of sh**'.  If that fatwa reaches and convinces one person who's considering joining a militant group - then that's one fewer potential recruit for Al Qaeda.  If you do that enough, Al Qaeda will wither and die, without any shots fired.

And even for people who have already joined extremist, militant groups: you don't need to kill them.  If they read that fatwa, and change their mind - then it's almost certain that they won't be going and blowing them-self (or anyone else) up.

Anyway, enough waffle.  Read this about an effective way of stopping extremists: http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=4321.

[Skuzzy]

This is just another political discussion.  Does not belong on our board.