P63

[AWwrgwy]

Just saw this sorry. Yes it was referencing P-39. Put the point was made in the book that the planes were never used as tank busters, which is a myth the author went out of his way to dispel in the very beginning of the book. He sights the fact the the Russians were not issued AP rounds for the 37mm cannon for the duration of the war. The gun in the P-63 is listed as an M-10 cannon, but everything I've read suggests the only difference was Ammo load [58 vs 30 rounds]. The ammunition was the same. So I don't think P-63 was used to bust tanks either.

I'll agree with you about the author's intention but it is also the only reference to the P-63 in the book, period.


wrongway

[Mystery]

Careful gents, let's get our nomenclature right before we get beat up and the thread deteriorates  

I believe the cannon in the P-63 and P-37 was termed the M4 or T9. The M10 is a different animal altogether.

Certainly there was AP ammunition (M80) used in stationary 37mm's but I cannot find any references at all to its use in aircraft. I can find many references that say the ONLY operational round used by the Russians was the M54, which is HE. Did it have some AP functional ability in the P-39? Well, sure. But (my guess) is that was limited to lucky shots on PxKpfw III's or perhaps SdKfz 251's.

As Vinkman pointed out, the P-63 and P-39 were not tankbusters. The M4 loaded with M54's just doesn't have the stones.

This post is a bit of a bump to keep the Kingcobra dream alive. It's a fun plane to fly in IL-2 Sturmovik and I think it would see some quite a bit of use in AH. Especially the A10 or C5 variant.

For sure, the M4 cannon in the P-39 is an amazing de-acker. Now for the P-63, add 50 mph, factor in 58 rounds (!) of 37mm, maybe 3x500 bombs or 6 HVAR's in a small-wingspan target? Challenge to fly but very effective when done well.

[Saxman]

It ultimately comes down to whether or not HiTech decides the (very slim) evidence presented is even sufficient to justify adding the aircraft. It's entirely plausible that even if the single engagement mentioned CAN be confirmed, HiTech may still decide that ONE encounter with the enemy in the LAST week of the war is in no way enough to justify the addition.

[ariansworld]

Hear anything Guppy?

[Guppy35]

Hear anything Guppy?

Mr. Mellinger wasn't at the meeting on Saturday.  Trying to track him down still.

[Mystery]

Ok Guppy, I'll admit I was waiting for your post. 

Good luck. George Mellinger is the man.

[Pigslilspaz]

Ok Guppy, I'll admit I was waiting for your post. 

Good luck. George Mellinger is the man.

same here lol.

[Bronk]

[icepac]

I'm curious how a p63 encountered the early war ki27 at all?

[Mystery]

I'm curious how a p63 encountered the early war ki27 at all?

Great question. I suspect that by this point, the Japanese had but a few "obsolete" birds to defend with and the Kuriles weren't exactly a historical frontline priority. Russo-Japanese war was always to be avoided from the Japanese POV so they stacked their air defenses with older planes while putting the front-line stuff against US forces.

Just a guess but likely true.

[Pigslilspaz]

I'm curious how a p63 encountered the early war ki27 at all?

Russia and Japan are separated by the Soya Straight only 5 miles wider than the English Channel.

Japan has fought with Russia on at least one other occasion.

[Krusty]

That's not his point Pig. Ki-27s in 1945? Surely not a likely scenario, is his point.

[Pigslilspaz]

Ah, I thought it was a matter of geography, as in is that swallow African or European, rather than is it winter and there for the African swallow is not even there (because European swallows are non-migratory as we all know)

[Bronk]

That's not his point Pig. Ki-27s in 1945? Surely not a likely scenario, is his point.

Right, because at this point they wouldn't use anything they could get into the air.

[Krusty]

They built 10000 A6m models. they built almost (?) 5000 Ki84s. Untold thousands upon thousands of late war advanced planes with no pilots to put in them.


Airframes were not the concern Bronk. They had capable craft. It was pilots they lacked. There's no reason they would have sent Ki-27s up. This is a pre-war fixed gear plane.



This plane was trouncing the Soviets in 1939 until they brought out the I-16, which outclassed it.

Yes, the I-16 outclassed the Ki-27 in 1939. This plane was replaced by the early model Ki-43.

There are claims of some that old Ki-27s were fitted with 500kg of explosives for kamikaze roles at the end of the war, but there would be no kamikaze targets for them to attack over Soviet Russia.


I dunno, unless it could be proven it's a highly suspect kill claim.


EDIT: Just to prove my point: Hundreds if not thousands of late war "monsters" (to use an AH term) were being stockpiled in Japan for the upcoming invasion. They had the planes to spare. They were storing them in caves and underground as well. There's a bit of a parallel to Nazi Germany at the end of the war, where production outstripped actual practical use.