Author Topic: AH HA -- something to consider  (Read 363 times)

Offline buhdman

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AH HA -- something to consider
« on: May 18, 2000, 01:31:00 PM »
Howdy,

We Buccaneers visited the SEA last night, not for the purpose of fighting in a no-icon environment, but more to find a place where we could practice flying our P-38s using the official P-38 manuals/procedures.  Having friendly collisions turned on was a side-benefit that we did not expect, but thoroughly enjoyed.  Our mission was to simulate the ferrying of P-38s to Morroco using B-26 as nav-ships and having each flight form up on a nav-ship as we went.  We observed pre-flight, takeoff, cruise, pre-landing, and shutdown checklists (right out of the book) during the flight. BTW, HiTech, the maximum RPM for the P-38L is 3000, per the manual, not 2750 or whatever is currently shown.

The flight to "Morroco" was pretty interesting and enlightening.  Cruising at 35 MP and 2300 RPMs and trying to keep formation with a B-26 AND not run into each other was quite a challenge.  We only lost one ship on the way due to collision (sorry delta).

Our plan was to fly overhead breaks from eschelon formation when we arrived at our destination.  Interesting concept.  Imagine 12+ ships diving on a field hell-bent on landing AND trying to avoid each other.  It was hillarious and for the most part we were successful.  One ship washed out its gear as it touched down and two ships collided on the runway shortly after touch down and I washed out my port engine by turning too hard during my taxi to the hangar.  Not bad for beginners.  The bottom line is that we had a blast and discovered that friendly collisions add a LOT of pucker factor to most everything you do :EEK:

One thing we did observe, however, is that without friendly icons (we turned them off for about 1 second) we could not have done what we did.  Whenever we fly as a squad, we always fly in assigned flights/elements and use this as the basis for all of our tactics.  With icons turned off, there is no way to tell your lead's P-38 from your wingman's.

Distance numbers we could probably do without, but when it comes to picking out your flight in a gaggle of fighters lined up next to the runway or rejoining after an intense fight, with the limitations of the technology available it cannot be done (acceptably) without at least ID.  Perhaps ID out to a certain range is all a squad would need to fly disciplined formations, but some kind of ID is required, IMHO.

Enemy icons?  Bah, who needs em!  

buhdman, out

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Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
The Buccaneers - "Return with Honor"
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow


[This message has been edited by buhdman (edited 05-18-2000).]

Offline Westy

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AH HA -- something to consider
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2000, 04:23:00 PM »
 istance numbers we could probably do without, but when it comes to picking out your flight in a gaggle of fighters lined up next to the runway or rejoining after an intense fight, with the limitations of the technology available it cannot be done (acceptably) without at least ID. Perhaps ID out to a certain range is all a squad would need to fly disciplined formations, but some kind of ID is required, IMHO.
Enemy icons? Bah, who needs em! "

I agree whole heartedly.

-Westy

Offline Hristo

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AH HA -- something to consider
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2000, 12:40:00 AM »
But what about unrealistic help you get with friendly icons ?

Imagine you chase a plane in furball, only to discover it is a friendly one (at 200-400 yards). It is all part of air combat. Put friendly icons and this element is gone.


I must say I am delighted with iconless fights.

No icons solved many problems :

- no more long distance spray and pray (firing ranges are historical)

- no more HOs (no more 3000 yards turning into a HO)

- being able to sneak on someone (SA very important now)

- ACM and evasives are better and much more rewarding (lose sight, lose fight)

- best of all, Hispanos are brought into their historical place (sure they are able to kill at 1000 yards, but you can't judge plane type and distance to bring it on target at those ranges easy)

Offline Hristo

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AH HA -- something to consider
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2000, 12:41:00 AM »
Would Saburo Sakai live through his famous fight with bunch of Hellcats if they had icons ?

Surely not !

In iconless arena, he probably would  

Offline Citabria

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AH HA -- something to consider
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2000, 01:17:00 AM »
your right for sure hristo

I'm almost certain that no Icons is much more accurate at simulating air combat for AH. you loose sight you actually do loose the fight.

The german 109s and 190s that thrived on disapearing down on the deck in real life would be found and killed quickly if painted flourescent red when 300 p-51s were there with them.

same goes for any engagement where the numbers are totally one sided.

however I do beleive that if we had friendly callsigns only that were very small and transparent grey, and only apeared at 150 yards this would do a good job of simulating individual aircraft markings.


BUT, Hristo, you, Cobra, udie, av8r and many others who have pretty much topped out and become so good it's scary definitely do not need the help Icons provides. after a while of flying with no Icons you can start to make out different plane types by their color scheme at distances that are very realistic.

I'm certain once AH catches up to our No Icons predicament we will have some regularly scheduled no icons events with accurate terrain, formation flying(i love formation flying   ) and all the other excellent stuff that goes into this type of engagement  

but the gauntlet has been thrown hopefully HTC will be able to meet our needs one day soon. and the way it is looking it wont be a day to far off  

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