Bullet Hole Found in US Airways Jet

[Pigslilspaz]

When I lived in Ft. Wayne many years ago, a gradeschool aged girl was killed on New Year's eve by a bullet fired into the air.  It struck her directly in the top of her head and killed her instantly. It isn't terminal velocity that's the problem, it's general velocity.  Remember that a bullet is leaving the barrel much faster than terminal velocity, and it is going to drop due to gravity long before it loses speed to just terminal. Like Jayhawk said, it's trajectory.  Terminal velocity would only apply in the strict sense if the bullet were dropped from overhead, with an initial starting speed of 0. Ballistics can have some weird  (and non-intuitive) effects.

A round fired into the air would still come under basic kinematics. Once it has left the barrel by about 5-6 inches there is nothing acting on it to accelerate it any further. At that point it is in free fall with an initial positive (and very fast) velocity in the vertical direction. It will be acted on with a downward force (gravity) and once it reaches v=0 (its peak) it will start going down. It will continue to accelerate downwards until it reaches terminal. I honestly cannot say, but it is my guess the the Terminal Velocity of a bullet is very high and may not even be reached in free fall when fired from a gun (read: Terminal may be higher then muzzle velocity). Then again that part is speculation and I cannot verify it unless given numbers. Also, lateral velocity does not effect vertical velocity and they are two separate components. (At least in a vacuum, cannot recall if also holds true in an atmospheric enviroment)

[APDrone]

They did a mythbusters episode on this very topic.

Turns out that if you shoot straight up, the bullet's terminal velocity is not lethal.

If you fire at an angle, the 'terminal velocity' doesn't apply, as it's following a trajectory with more 'controlled' flight.

[dirtdart]

The night they hung sadaam there was a lot of gunfire into the air.  When I got back to my bed a ak round managed to go through the roof of my container.  I call this myth plausible.

[canacka]

One thing has been overlooked here which may be causing some confusion.  The plane was most likely banking when it was struck, thus exposing the top of the plane. 

[MachFly]

I have a bullet ricochet impact the left wing of my Cirrus 20 back in Jan of 07. Was way out on thewingtip - I marked the area of impact and looked for any delamination. That was 1600 hours ago - spot has not changed.

The toejamty part is, my wife found it while she was degreasing the belly.

You have a composite wing, the bullet did not cause any cracks inside? Plastic can't just bent like metal.

Any idea where the bullet came from or what size was it?
Did you know when it hit you or did you discover it in the preflight?
Did you have to do any useless FAA paper work on it? FAR does not say anything about bullet hits.


Sorry I'm asking a lot of questions, you just surprised the hell out of me.

[BowHTR]

They did a mythbusters episode on this very topic.

Turns out that if you shoot straight up, the bullet's terminal velocity is not lethal.

If you fire at an angle, the 'terminal velocity' doesn't apply, as it's following a trajectory with more 'controlled' flight.

mythbusters is very sketchy at times. I dont believe all all the answers they come up with. Some of their answers are wrong.

[bozon]

What was the angle of entry? If it happened midair the angle cannot be perpendicular to the surface because the speed of the plane is about as fast as the bullet from small arms. The bullet itself need no energy to do damage - it cound be just hanging in midair and the plane slams into it at 0.85-0.9 Mach, but the entry point would be infront or at a very shallow angle, almost parallel to the sides of the plane.

If there is an entry and exit holes and close to a perpendicular entry angle and must have happened in mid-air then it could be a meteorite.

[Jayhawk]

What was the angle of entry? If it happened midair the angle cannot be perpendicular to the surface because the speed of the plane is about as fast as the bullet from small arms. The bullet itself need no energy to do damage - it cound be just hanging in midair and the plane slams into it at 0.85-0.9 Mach, but the entry point would be infront or at a very shallow angle, almost parallel to the sides of the plane.

If there is an entry and exit holes and close to a perpendicular entry angle and must have happened in mid-air then it could be a meteorite.

All your questions are answered in the story, and no, it was not a meteorite.

[Reschke]

Here in Birmingham, AL the Air National Guard units do their FOD walk down the flight line and the taxi ways each morning and in the course of a year they fill up at least a 5 gallon bucket with bullets that are shot from the surrounding neighborhood where BHM airport is located. Many aircraft are shot at as they come in to land as well as the hood rats shooting up home boys and such.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

mythbusters is very sketchy at times. I dont believe all all the answers they come up with. Some of their answers are wrong.

In this case they clearly stated that if a bullet is shot straight up it can't kill the shooter or anyone standing next to him because the bullet will start to tumble on its way down and has no energy for it. They also said that if a bullet is shot at much less angle than 90° as often witnessed in tv news, someone may get shot as a result. A 45° angle would be a recipe for a long distance kill - and you see that happen all the time while some idiot is shooting from a car window etc. while celebrating.

[icepac]

When I lived in Ft. Wayne many years ago, a gradeschool aged girl was killed on New Year's eve by a bullet fired into the air.  It struck her directly in the top of her head and killed her instantly. It isn't terminal velocity that's the problem, it's general velocity.  Remember that a bullet is leaving the barrel much faster than terminal velocity, and it is going to drop due to gravity long before it loses speed to just terminal. Like Jayhawk said, it's trajectory.  Terminal velocity would only apply in the strict sense if the bullet were dropped from overhead, with an initial starting speed of 0. Ballistics can have some weird  (and non-intuitive) effects.

In fact, the Allies had a terminal velocity (kinetic) ordinance that looked like a miniature bomb about an inch or so long, made from about 1 oz of steel. It was scattered from high altitude aircraft and designed to do damage over a broad area against personnel and soft targets.  It was not fired from a gun, but depended on the speed it picked up from being dropped from a great height.  I don't have any data on how effective they were, but I wouldn't want to be under 'em.  Even a regular bullet, if high enough caliber, can do a lot of damage even at just terminal velocity.

From personal experience, the living history village I volunteered at North of Phoenix (Pioneer Village) was on the other side of a low mountain range from the Ben Avery shooting range.  One day the USMC decided to let rip at the range with a few M2's (.50 caliber for those who don't know) The rounds arced over the mountain after hitting their targets (we assumed, as we figured even jarheads wouldn't be dumb enough to fire M2's into the air near a populated area), and strafed the village.  We had to take shelter, and afterwards, repair a lot of holes in roofs, wagons, and other outdoor displays.  A year later we were still finding spent bullets in the ground when digging for any reason, some as deep as 4 inches of packed dirt.

I can easily believe the bullet came from a gun fired into the air for whatever reason.

Crazy and lucky nobody was hurt.

A navy seabee buddy had found some old M2 ammo that had sat a long time and got permission to fire it off at the range.

After only a quick burst, it was apparent that there were tracers involved but it was too late......the targets started burning fiercly.

There was no water anywhere near the targets and they were done by the time help arrived.

[Tupac]

Crazy and lucky nobody was hurt.

Did you read the part where the girl was killed instantly?

[dedalos]

It depends on the bullet.  Different bullets will reach different terminal velocities.  However, something like a .30 caliber 150gr bullet will hurt if it hits you on the head, but will not kill you.

All the examples talking about people getting killed have no clue as to what angle and distance those bullets were fired at. 

[Tupac]

It depends on the bullet.  Different bullets will reach different terminal velocities.  However, something like a .30 caliber 150gr bullet will hurt if it hits you on the head, but will not kill you.

All the examples talking about people getting killed have no clue as to what angle and distance those bullets were fired at. 

this

[ROX]

One of my radio buddies in the mid 70's was a professional pilot, single and dual engine small planes.  He was the "air taxi" for the huge pharmaceutical firm in the area, shuttling emergency medical supplies and firm bigshots from here to there.

He HATED flyting over East St. Louis, IL and the St. Louis air traffic controllers almost always vectored him over that city when he was inbound.  He most always heard gunfire, especially at night and his plane was hit numerous times.  One bullet hit the in-wing gas tank and he was lucky it didn't catch fire.  That made him have to stay an extra couple of days until it was repaired.

Truth of the thread:  yes, there are morons and prettythanghats that fire at private and commercial aircraft because they think it's funny.  If it's not already a federal crime it should be...then again gangbangers could care less.