A380 vs RJ7 @ JFK

[FTJR]

Take a look at the airport diagram at JFK (link is bellow). We know that the video was taken from the terminal, and we know that the A380 was not far from the terminal. There are no taxiways that close to any terminal at JFK.
http://tiles.skyvector.com/sky/files/tpp/1104/pdf/00610AD.PDF

Thanks for the link, since I dont know where it all happened I also cannot comment.

[FTJR]

Would you remember what airport that was at?
I'd like to see the actual notam (I'm not saying I don't believe you I just want to see what it looks like)

I live and operate in Asia, and fly down to Australia, I just looked to see if I had any old copies on my pc, I'll just log on and have a look.

[MachFly]

Thanks for the link, since I dont know where it all happened I also cannot comment.

I have no idea where it happened either. But we know what the terminals look like (a building with that long thing sticking out), also take a look in the center where it says "INTERNATIONAL ARRIVAL TERMINAL U.S. CUSTOMS". There are no taxiways that close to any of those terminals. I believe all other buildings shown on the diagram are hangars.

[MachFly]

I live and operate in Asia, and fly down to Australia, I just looked to see if I had any old copies on my pc, I'll just log on and have a look.

I never flown internationally (as a pilot) so I'm thinking if the NOTAMs are in different format? And perhaps say different kind of stuff?

[FTJR]

I just downloaded this off the company internet, I dont have the ability to link, so here is the cut and paste.

What I am refering to is the 2nd last notam, Code E which refers to the wingspan I believe


1F3267/11
HJ MON-SAT
TWY A1 LEFT INTO RWY 06 OR RWY 06 RIGHT INTO TWY A1
AVBL TO A321 B767 A330 A340 B747 B777 VIA MODIFIED WHITE DASHED
LEADIN LINE. REFER AIP SUP H13/11
REFER METHOD OF WORKING PLAN YPPH 001/11
1F3084/11
HN
TWY P MOVEMENT AREA GUIDANCE EXIT SIGN FM RWY 03 NOT AVBL
1F3081/11
TWY W BTN TWY B AND H LANE AVBL FOR B737 AND BLW AT DISCRETION OF
ATC
1F3036/11
TWY W BTN C1 AND THR RWY 24 AVBL TO CODE E ACFT AND BLW
AMEND EN ROUTE SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA
REPLACE APRONS AND TAXIWAYS NOTE 1.
1F2767/11
DOMESTIC APRON CL TAXILANE LGT ADJACENT TO TWY D NOT AVBL
AREA LIT BY APRON LIGHTING

[FTJR]

And here is a link with the definitions

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/air...esigngroup.pdf

again, nice conversation, made me look at stuff i've not looked at for a few years.

[flight17]

Guys, we need to lay this out there and get it straight. The A380 was on a taxiway, not a ramp. He was on Alpha, near the Mike intersection.\



i drew it out. The A380 was heading down Alpha. The CRJ was on Mike waiting to enter the appron area, but as it turned out was not far enough in for the A380 to pass without incodence.

[FTJR]

Hey Thanks Flight17, makes it alot clearer

[MachFly]

I just downloaded this off the company internet, I dont have the ability to link, so here is the cut and paste.

What I am refering to is the 2nd last notam, Code E which refers to the wingspan I believe


1F3267/11
HJ MON-SAT
TWY A1 LEFT INTO RWY 06 OR RWY 06 RIGHT INTO TWY A1
AVBL TO A321 B767 A330 A340 B747 B777 VIA MODIFIED WHITE DASHED
LEADIN LINE. REFER AIP SUP H13/11
REFER METHOD OF WORKING PLAN YPPH 001/11
1F3084/11
HN
TWY P MOVEMENT AREA GUIDANCE EXIT SIGN FM RWY 03 NOT AVBL
1F3081/11
TWY W BTN TWY B AND H LANE AVBL FOR B737 AND BLW AT DISCRETION OF
ATC
1F3036/11
TWY W BTN C1 AND THR RWY 24 AVBL TO CODE E ACFT AND BLW
AMEND EN ROUTE SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA
REPLACE APRONS AND TAXIWAYS NOTE 1.
1F2767/11
DOMESTIC APRON CL TAXILANE LGT ADJACENT TO TWY D NOT AVBL
AREA LIT BY APRON LIGHTING

Thanks, did not realize that.

I just check the NOTAMs for JFK, a lot of taxiway closures but nothing that limits the size. Maybe there was something up a few days ago but I don't know.

[MachFly]

Guys, we need to lay this out there and get it straight. The A380 was on a taxiway, not a ramp. He was on Alpha, near the Mike intersection.\

(Image removed from quote.)

i drew it out. The A380 was heading down Alpha. The CRJ was on Mike waiting to enter the appron area, but as it turned out was not far enough in for the A380 to pass without incodence.

How do you know that?

[FTJR]

Thanks, did not realize that.

I just check the NOTAMs for JFK, a lot of taxiway closures but nothing that limits the size. Maybe there was something up a few days ago but I don't know.

It would only be notamed if it was changed, my initial statement was to the effect that if there was no notam out then the 380 could presume wingtip clearance from all
"properly" parked or holding aircraft on adjacent taxiways, holding points.

This doesnt absolve him from not being cautious though.

[MachFly]

It would only be notamed if it was changed, my initial statement was to the effect that if there was no notam out then the 380 could presume wingtip clearance from all
"properly" parked or holding aircraft on adjacent taxiways, holding points.

This doesnt absolve him from not being cautious though.

Right

[Golfer]

How do you know that?

ATC recording.  Intersection of Alpha and Mike.

http://youtu.be/WjuCI2yAVD8

[MachFly]

ATC recording.  Intersection of Alpha and Mike.

http://youtu.be/WjuCI2yAVD8

Thanks, could not find a recording.

[-tronski-]

Not sure thats entirely correct, if the taxiway is limited to a particular wingspan, it will be notamed or in the aerodrome notes.

Notams for that are generally due to WIP

I didn't intend to sound condescending if that's how you took it now that I reread my post.  I'll blame it on writing from my phone and not as easily being able to format my thoughts into a more presentable fashion....

....This 380 isn't the first airplane to hit something that wasn't reported/notam'd/lit/marked/where it should be while maintaining centerline during taxi and won't be the last.  I can go on but being "right" in the eyes of the lawsuit that follows to determine who pays is one thing.  It's another when it comes to keeping your certificates and getting a (at least now with the FAA) ding on your record that will not be expunged for something that might well not be your fault.  I'd like to say that keeping on the centerline of a taxiway will guarantee you'll keep from whacking into stuff.  It'd be nice and even logical.  It won't.

No offense taken

There was a TG B744 in Madrid which which took a wrong twy which was Notam'd for works and cut the tail off a parked E145. The twy had a reduced clearance for code C acft only and as they deviated onto the new centerline, the first officer monitored as they passed the Embraer believing they had just enough space, and only calling to stop as they cut its tail off.

 Tronsky