What handgun to buy?

[Jayhawk]

Yeah, but I wouldn't want to conceal carry a 44 for personal protection.

[allaire]

Exactly why I think I would choose a pistol with a lot of rounds.  Glock 17 holds 17+1 (and I believe there is a 19 round magazine available, not to mention the 33), an XDm 9mm holds 19+1.   I like the Glock 19 because I can usually conceal it on myself and still hold a good number of rounds

If you want higher capacity mags for you weapons I would suggest you get them soon.  Seems like the Brady Campaign are out to get a ban on "assault" mags.

[SIK1]

I was told by an Alaskan gold dredger that you should shoot for the knees on the rear legs. He said by taking out the rear legs you pretty much stop,the bear, and the frontal plate on a grizz may stop or deflect just about any handgun caliber you could shoot at it. I don't know if he was full of BS or not I was just a 19 yr kid at the time, but what he said made sense, that is, if you can hit the rear knees on a charging grizzly.

[ink]

Yeah, but I wouldn't want to conceal carry a 44 for personal protection.

even a 44 is a bit too small for Grizz

I was told by an Alaskan gold dredger that you should shoot for the knees on the rear legs. He said by taking out the rear legs you pretty much stop,the bear, and the frontal plate on a grizz may stop or deflect just about any handgun caliber you could shoot at it. I don't know if he was full of BS or not I was just a 19 yr kid at the time, but what he said made sense, that is, if you can hit the rear knees on a charging grizzly.

actually sounds smart...like you say though "IF" you can hit the knees of a running grizz...that's a big If, about a thousand pounds "IF"

[Jayhawk]

Has anyone considered the hand grenade option?

[Jayhawk]

If you want higher capacity mags for you weapons I would suggest you get them soon.  Seems like the Brady Campaign are out to get a ban on "assault" mags.

Bought my first AR-15 a few weeks ago.  First thing I did was purchase a couple extra 30 rd. magazines for it.

[gyrene81]

Yeah, but wanting a pistol that his wife can handle, he can carry easily, afford to shoot, use for personal protection, and grizzly defense just isn't really possible.  It's not just a grizzly gun.

personal protection against very large wild animals with thick hides...9mm would do nothing more than wound the bear while he's biting your skull off unless you can stick the barrel in his ear or in his mouth and fire the full clip...and a wounded bear is probably the most dangerous animal in the woods.

.357 would be a starting point for an emergency defense weapon against a bear...the guys who work the pipelines in alaska are told to carry a minimum .357 magnum...bigger if they can handle it.

I was told by an Alaskan gold dredger that you should shoot for the knees on the rear legs. He said by taking out the rear legs you pretty much stop,the bear, and the frontal plate on a grizz may stop or deflect just about any handgun caliber you could shoot at it. I don't know if he was full of BS or not I was just a 19 yr kid at the time, but what he said made sense, that is, if you can hit the rear knees on a charging grizzly.

makes a lot of sense, if he stands on his hind legs before he charges, that would be the time to hit him.


for us puny humans...a full grown boar grizzly is a terminator in a fur coat.

[Volron]

For the record I have no hate towards Griz. I spend a ton of time in the woods and have a tremendous respect for all of the predators. I even spent a lot of time this past winter tracking Mountain Lions for a National Geographic, spending nights camped out on a kill waiting for a 150 pound cat to come eat, and never once did I feel I needed protection. And besides, personally I would never sport hunt or kill anything in the woods that wasn't trying to kill me first.

But in the last few years the town and region has had more and more bear encounters, and they aren't the cuddly black bears, they are big pissed off grizzlies. The population is growing and their territories are huge, in my opinion it is only a matter of time before I see one too close for comfort.

No, no. I ment Grizz as in OUR Grizz.   Was trying to make a funny.  Obviously I failed.

As for your want for a weapon when you hike, I can't blame you.  I think a lot of the times, you surprise each other.  And bears don't take kindly to surprises.  Personally, I'd be more worried about a Mountain Lion if I'm in their territory (you have experience tracking them.  I don't).  For bear defense, would the Glock 31 be up to the task?

for us puny humans...a full grown boar grizzly is a terminator in a fur coat.

[Bronk]

Heh... I'm thinking my .460 with a 300 grain slug would drop a grizzly.   Not that I'd want to get close enough to try.

[Gaboon]

I my self would stick with the 1911 I have a series 70 highly modified and I use military grade black talon rounds. Trust me you hit something with those in a .45 cal round its going down. The Glock 40 is also I very nice weapon so is the H&K 40 if you want to spend the money.

[saggs]

Must... not... rant....

Well, I can't hold back... here comes my rant.  



I just as big a gun nut as the next guy here, I own several...

BUT...  carrying a handgun in the backcountry for "bear defense" is just plain silly and stupid.

First point... bears, be they Grizzly or Black are just not that aggressive.  I would dare say I've spent more nights deep in bear country then most here, I worked as a backcountry guide in Yellowstone for 2 summers and the Wind Rivers for 5 summers, along with dozens of personal backpacking trips.   I've been up close with black bears and grizzlies many times, and I've never had them act aggressively at all.  (Moose are a different story however. )

Contrary to popular belief, bears don't spend all day wandering around looking for hikers and boy scouts to eat, many bears will quickly vacate the area when they sense humans near (through smell, hearing or sight).  The bears that don't leave, also don't seem to be bothered at all by people.  

I was in a swimming hole in a river in the Winds once when a black bear walked right up, and sat on the opposite bank watching us swim, then after about 10 minutes he got bored and wandered over to a log to dig some grubs.  Another time I had a grizzly walk right through our camp at dawn, I woke up when I heard something knock over some gear by my tent, I thought it was one of the boys gonna drop my tent, so I rolled over, unzipped the door and stuck my head out to find it less then 3 feet from a grizzly bear shoulder.  I was pretty shocked,  but I lay back down quietly and listened to the grizzly wander around camp a bit, soon enough he left without doing any damage except to a can of deet.  These are just two of a dozen or more bear encounters I've had.

Point is that you have a better chance of death or serious injury in the backcountry from dozens of other causes (falling, hypothermia, hyperthermia, poison plants, lightning, bee stings whatever) then from bear attack.

Second point...   In the unlikely event that a bear does become aggressive, bear spray is much more effective at stopping a charging bear of any size then any handgun.  (bonus is it's non-lethal as well)  I know people won't believe me, but I've seen personally what that spray can do when a stupid boy scout decided to let some loose, it is NASTY stuff, several times more potent then the pepper spray the police use.  Several accounts tell of bears taking several bullets without stopping, plus when you're scared poopless with a large bear charging at you how accurate is your aim gonna be???   Bear spray however has been very, very effective, and you don't need to aim it, just point in the general direction and let it go.    When I was guiding in the Wind Rivers, I was required by the USFS to carry bear spray, fortunately I've never had to use it.  But it is lighter and easier to carry then a handgun as well.

If your backpacking in USFS designated wilderness land, or National Parks they usually have their own laws against firearms anyway.  (which I don't agree with but that would get rule #14)  Besides who wants to carry that extra weight anyway.

Summary... if you really want protection from bears and other wild animals in the backcountry, be smart, give wildlife plenty of space, don't get between a sow and cub (or food), store you food and smellables properly,   AND leave the gun at home and spend $70 on a  can of bear spray instead.  

[Maverick]

AKHog,

You have 2 different categories going here. You want a weapon for CCW and you want a handgun for grizzly deterrent. The same pistol is not going to do both jobs well.

For CCW and cheap practice you want small and inexpensive practice ammo. The best for that is a 9mm in a small pistol format. Something like the Ruger small 9. The next best choice if you want more power would be a .40 in as small a package as you can get or a .357 with a round butt and 2" or 3" barrel. If you want to practice you can shoot 38's. You will still have to make a compromise in that choice as well. If you are interested in comfort one of the composite frame or air weight frame revolvers will do. If you want to shoot it a lot, get a steel frame (since it's for concealment I recommend stainless) and it will be more comfortable to shoot.

For grizzly deterrent you want the biggest handgun you can get and it will still be too small. At the very very least you want a .44 magnum with hard cast heavy slugs over a heavy powder charge. The S&W 500 would be better but still with hard cast solids. You don't want expansion, you need penetration. Practice will not be cheap or fun.

In all seriousness, if you are going into grizzly country and anticipate problems, take a rifle of at least medium caliber (30-06 or better, more is better) or at the least a shotgun with 3" high velocity slugs, not the old soft forster slugs.

[saggs]

I was told by an Alaskan gold dredger that you should shoot for the knees on the rear legs. He said by taking out the rear legs you pretty much stop,the bear, and the frontal plate on a grizz may stop or deflect just about any handgun caliber you could shoot at it. I don't know if he was full of BS or not I was just a 19 yr kid at the time, but what he said made sense, that is, if you can hit the rear knees on a charging grizzly.

Yeah... cause you're the greatest shot in the world, and you can hit the back legs of a bear moving 30 mph straight at you!   Even thought the front legs are between you and the back ones.  

I doubt most could even make a headshot on a bear charging 30 mph straight at them, not until it was right on top of you, which is to late anyway.  Sudden large surges of adrenalin do not help your aim.  

Forget all this garbage and old mountain man tales about headshots, and legshots and calibers and grain and muzzle velocity.  Seriously just buy some bear spray.   It's cheap proven technology.   I carry UDAP brand, it's supposed to have better coverage and range then some of the cheaper brands.



Think about it this way, Yellowstone, and Glacier NP Park Rangers and Park Police carry both a handgun and bear spray.  Go ask one of them which they are gonna reach for first if a bear charged them.

makes a lot of sense, if he stands on his hind legs before he charges, that would be the time to hit him.


for us puny humans...a full grown boar grizzly is a terminator in a fur coat.

No, it doesn't,  it makes absolutely no sense at all, only in Hollywood movies do bears stand and roar menacingly before they charge you.

And grizzlies are not terminators, they are just animals, they eat, sleep, and make babies.  Like I said they don't wander around the woods all day looking for delicious humans to eat.   Did you know that usually less then half of a grizzlies diet is meat?  And as often as not the meat they eat is carrion (already dead)?  They eat just as much berries, nuts, insects and grubs as they do meat, they are true omnivores.   The only bear that is 100% carnivore is the Polar Bear

[AKHog]

I have 3 cans of bear spray, I almost always have one with me any time I'm in the woods. I would use the spray first, the gun would be a last resort. However read my story about the mountain bikers, in the chaos they basically got most of the spray on each other and it didn't seam to effect the bear much if at all. That is the story that is playing in the back of my mind when I'm laying awake at night under the stars. 

I wouldn't think twice to spend all night camped on a mountain lion's kill with no protection, they are really timid creatures and don't want much to do with humans. They are probably the smartest of the predators in our woods and will stalk and get CLOSE without you ever knowing, but they are mainly just curious. I would also film black bears waking up and wondering around just feet from the winter dens. The moms chase us off and I don't think much of it. Wolves are everywhere around here but are nothing to worry about. Griz are a completely different story. Some of the "park bears" are known for being tame, but most are pretty aggressive animals. You are right about the Moose though, those are probably the most dangerous animal out of them all! The problem with the "mountain donkey" is they are just plain dumb, and have big powerful legs made for stomping. I wouldn't think twice about taking down one of those if it was in attack mode (after I emptied a can of bear spray on it first of course  ).

I just came home with a box of .38 special, and plan on going out with the wife to put some ammo through the stub nose this weekend. It sounds like as far as taking a hand gun for hiking etc, that the .357 I already have is probably as good as anything else.

[gyrene81]

saggs, not to disagree with you but, i lived and hunted in bear country long enough to know what they will do in the very rare instance that a surprise encounter occurs...albeit i've never been closer than 300 yards from a grizzly. i've seen a sow black bear sit back on her haunches, not stand, when she thought her cub was in danger...it's not normal behavior for sure but it will sure scare the water out of you.

and yes, a full grown grizzly is a terminator in a fur coat if you're unlucky enough to be too close for either of you to get away when you encounter one...it will act on its instincts and attack until it no longer feels threatened...never said a thing about eating humans.