Author Topic: the farce has lasted long enough...  (Read 6395 times)

Offline Noir

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #165 on: May 05, 2011, 01:55:11 AM »
MY reasons to fly the P51

#1 speed/manoeuvrability combination (not top speed but conservation)
#2 trigger time
#3 views
#4 fuel

But I agree the reason the P51 sees more use is the 1K bombs.

As for the spit9 VS spit16 debate, the spit9 will win in a horizontal plane turn fight, but will face trouble if the fight stretches on the vertical plane. In my experience, the difference in stall speeds is so small, that even at 15k that it can't be relied on.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #166 on: May 05, 2011, 02:54:49 AM »
"Most don't fall for it" means most P-51s one pass haul bellybutton at 500 mph and are never a credible threat. If the Pony actually engages in such a manner he has a shot, the P-38 has quite a good chance of turning the tables.

The only time a P-38 would have a chance against a P-51D of equal skill is if the P-51D pilot screws up and loses patience and tries to force the kill or the P-38 driver had an energy and altitude advantage. 

If the P-51D driver keeps his cool, he can dictate the fight at his whim and there is nothing the P-38 driver can do about it other than hope to Jeebus the Mustang driver makes a mistake.  Lucky for me, I've only run across one Pony driver that had the patience of a saint and thankfully he doesn't play anymore.

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Offline BnZs

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #167 on: May 05, 2011, 05:35:41 PM »
patience of a saint
ack-ack

=No boredom gene.

As you yourself have pointed out on occasions, the P-51 has no advantages over the 38J/L other than top speed in level flight and dives. All this means is that maybe, if it doesn't get too slow while fighting and get overhauled by the 38s superior acceleration and long-reaching firepower, the 51 can run away.

Personally, I think a 38 with enough smash to close on a 51 is in a better position than a 51 with an E advantage over a 38, although obviously it can go either way. I've not flown the 38 as much as you have, but I have flown it quite abit. It just overmatches the 51 in competent hands (never mind "equal skill") and can even take on the 109s and Ki-84s that eat up a Pony quite nicely.

Sure, the Pony can leave a bad situation easier and can an extending bandit easier, but other advantages count in the MA. Like I say, last time I checked the arena the very fastest planes aren't the most popular in there. In the real world, the need for energy and maneuver performance as opposed to top speed uber alles was realized decades ago and led directly to the F-15 and F-16.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Guppy35

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #168 on: May 05, 2011, 10:29:29 PM »
MY reasons to fly the P51

#1 speed/manoeuvrability combination (not top speed but conservation)
#2 trigger time
#3 views
#4 fuel

But I agree the reason the P51 sees more use is the 1K bombs.

As for the spit9 VS spit16 debate, the spit9 will win in a horizontal plane turn fight, but will face trouble if the fight stretches on the vertical plane. In my experience, the difference in stall speeds is so small, that even at 15k that it can't be relied on.



What part of the Spit IX is in FIX with an engine rated for higher alts, and the Spitfire XVI is a Spitfire LFIXe with an engine rated for lower alts isn't making sense?   Take the fight higher and the LFIXe won't have that advantage and the Spit FIX will.  Again, the LFIX aka XVI has an engine that's better suited for the fighting alts in AH.  The Spit VIII also has that engine.  The airframe of the Spit IX/XVI is the same, only the engine is different.

So basically the complaint is the clipped wings and increased roll rate.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Krusty

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #169 on: May 05, 2011, 10:46:21 PM »
Take the fight higher and the LFIXe won't have that advantage and the Spit FIX will.  Again, the LFIX aka XVI has an engine that's better suited for the fighting alts in AH. 

Actually... I used to think that too. However in AH the higher boost of the Spit8/16 actually makes up the difference of the higher FTH on the spit9. The spit9 might be about 20mph faster at 26k, and the spit8/16 pair may begin to lose power at 21k, but they had more power to drop off and above 26k the speed difference appears to be more like 15mph tops.

So even at high alts the spit8/16 are still quite competitive. I was rather surprised when I found that out. There is no reason to favor the spit9 (the in-game one) when you have the option of either 8/16, even when your goal is high alt flying.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #170 on: May 05, 2011, 11:02:25 PM »
I'm going to quote Supermarine Chief Test Pilot Jeffrey Quill;

"Then at some indefinate time in 1942, there seemed to be a change of tactical philosophy on both sides.  It was rather as if, by some sort of tacit mutual consent between enemies, it was realized that the band between 30,000 and 40,000 feet was  silly place to have an air battle, and the fighting tended to drop down to the more practical regions, roughly between 15,000 and 25,000 feet.  I remember how, at the time, this trend interested me very much indeed.  It was clearly reflected in the LF Mk IX (Merlin 66) with the engine performance adjusted to the reduced height band.  It was also reflected in the fact that, by removing the wing tips of the Spitfire, an improvement in lateral control could be achieved, but because it thereby increased the wing loading and the span loading of the wing, an aerodynamic penalty was incurred at high altitude.  Such a proposition would have been unthinkable in 1940/41, but in 1942/43 the idea was enthusiastically adopted by some squadrons of 11 Group, and the 'clipped wing' Spitfire became a common sight in the sky."

Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline guncrasher

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #171 on: May 06, 2011, 12:38:38 AM »
I think the pros and cons have been discussed to death, which is where the thread should be.  Until l next month or two when it gets reposted.

semp
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #172 on: May 06, 2011, 12:39:34 AM »
From in-game experience the IX has a deadband in the engine from about 16.5K to about 19.5K just as the XIV does.  Boost drops considerably while in that alt range.  Over or under that you're golden.  The XIII and XVI however don't experience such a dramatic deadband and if that range is the fighting alt then I prefer the XVI (or the XIII) even though it's rated for lower alts.

The fact is that fighting alts in-game rarely exceed that so the IX and XIV don't get their due.  That said if you keep them below that lower range they are both still formidable fighters.
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Offline phatzo

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #173 on: May 06, 2011, 01:18:44 AM »
Nuke Joyeux anniversaire à partir de tous les clochards ivres downunder

Happy Birthday mate
No thank you Turkish, I'm sweet enough.

Offline Noir

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #174 on: May 06, 2011, 01:38:30 AM »
Nuke Joyeux anniversaire à partir de tous les clochards ivres downunder

Happy Birthday mate

Thanks Phatzo ^^ 30 already  :cry
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Offline phatzo

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #175 on: May 06, 2011, 03:22:42 AM »
Thanks Phatzo ^^ 30 already  :cry
LOL, when I was typing it into google translate I originally wanted to say "from all the pissheads" and it wouldn't recognize it and said, did you mean "from all the potheads"
No thank you Turkish, I'm sweet enough.

Offline Noir

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #176 on: May 06, 2011, 03:56:05 AM »
Quote
les clochards ivres

means "the drunk beggars"
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Offline phatzo

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #177 on: May 06, 2011, 04:18:25 AM »
close enough "drunken bums"
No thank you Turkish, I'm sweet enough.