Author Topic: Ship guns and SBs  (Read 1125 times)

Offline Crash Orange

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2011, 07:30:36 PM »
You set range, speed, bearing, and course of the enemy, then adjust the numbers over time as you never get them right the first try.  Ships have mechanical computers (about as big as a fridge) that have knobs you turn on them for those settings, and they give you a running solution to lead the enemy, and that is how the turrets are aimed.

[snip]

4.  Speed.  Again, takes time.  You guess at first

Not in this game - ships always move at the same set speed, as you note. And that's the problem with completely realistic fire control for ship guns - like our hyper-accurate laser-guided bombsights, it makes it way too easy because the things that made it difficult in real life aren't modeled in the game. Our ships don't even roll! And then there's wind, air temp and pressure at different altitudes, which had to be guessed, age and other variables that affected powder performance, barrel wear... long-range ship gunnery is like shooting a rifle at 1000 yards: all sorts of things affect it that are small enough to be ignored at 100 yards, so it becomes a completely different skill.

I think the old sea mode was about right in difficulty - an experienced gunner could get hit rates well above historical ones even in controlled conditions, but the nature of this game kinda demands more decisive action in less time than IRL.

They also have radar, which makes using the periscope system just a backup.

I won't swear to this, but believe the radar was generally the backup for surface gunnery when visibility was good - the optical systems were more accurate, and at least in early and mid-war the crews were better trained at using the optics. Radar range finding was a huge advantage to the allies at night and in bad visibility, when they used it properly - but often they didn't, as at Savo Island. IIRC the Axis powers developed search radar but never developed radar fire control or rangefinding (I'd imagine anything concerning naval surface warfare was very low priority for the Germans after 1941).

Offline DoubleEagle

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2011, 08:14:15 PM »
I think a simplistic plotting system could work as a game.  I don't like the old system.  It only fires at an enemy ship accurately if you are in parallel courses.

To me a system should also have human errors in it.  You should never be able to get it laser accurate.  Mastering the human error part is what should separate the good players from the chumps.

I would rather a system work like this.

1.  Similar to calibrating the bomb sight, set the initial range/bearing/course.  Use a coincidence range finder (double image, line them up = range), bearing is automatic, but the most difficult would be course.  You set that manually by guestimation on a dial.  We don't need to set speed, as it is always 35 knots.

2.  Enter in corrections based on shell splashes.  The aim point is a moving point in space.  I want the system to remember the corrections we put in and average them all together, then aim on that point, which is reset if you go back and do step 1 again.

I also think maps could use more fleets of just cruisers with escorts.  This way the carrier pilots wouldn't complain too hard that we're taking their ship too close to the enemy so we can shell them.  They could also be spawn points for LTV's.

Offline DoubleEagle

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2011, 08:16:46 PM »
double post.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 10:24:05 PM by DoubleEagle »

Offline bacon8tr

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2011, 10:05:22 PM »
   :O  I was never good at math...... Now I have a headache.  :bhead

Offline EagleOne

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2011, 11:22:26 PM »
look at u dweebs talking geometry, angles, plotting n such. the old system was fine, the new systems boggles the mind. DOes HT think this will attract more newbs to stick around after 2 weeks??

Offline DoubleEagle

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2011, 11:54:51 PM »
Actually, we're still using the old system.  It is just a bit harder to control as you have to use WASD to aim.

I was dreaming about a day when we could have something more accurate.

I do like the new gunsight with the mil dot scales.  That math equation for figuring out range is useful now.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 12:04:06 AM by DoubleEagle »

Offline icepac

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2011, 09:22:12 AM »
The recent changes almost seem geared toward steering the game toward button based play.

I wonder if a port to xbox or ps3 is in the works?

Offline Flayed

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2011, 03:28:01 PM »
 I messed with a shore battery a bit the other night and I think I get the general idea of how it is supposed to work but not having much of an indicator to rell me where the gun was pointing in relation to where I had the range indicator didn't work for me and I gave up.     

   It's much simpler to just up my 26's and go sink the ship from 13K.   :D
Bringing peace to the MA's 1 explody thingy at a time! :)

  Pork em Pork em all!!!
  And the best quote EVERRRRR!!!
"All I can say is wow,some people are really stuck on stupid."
HiTech

Offline DoubleEagle

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Re: Ship guns and SBs
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2011, 04:43:18 AM »
Yeah, but I am one of those guys who dreams of having a virtual battlefield.  All combatants in large scale warfare, all made of players.

Aces High is the closest thing to it right now that I have seen to that, including WW2 Online (noble attempt, but their game is even less user friendly then most games I have ever played, and I have played some odd ones).

I just keep suggesting things to get us closer to that goal.  I would like a gunnery system for the cruiser that isn't too complicated, but gets the basics right for how it would have been done on ships in the 40's.