A British Tank

[E25280]

May I suggest before championing the addition of a tank into AH that the attributes of that tank be considered.  Meaning, if it has the top speed slower than a 7 year itch (Matilda, Churchill), armed with a gun similar than the M8 Greyhound (2 Pdr on most British '41-'43 tanks), and the armor no more effective than the M4's we have in the game..... ..... ..... ..... .....

then why even add it since it offers nothing new and in fact offers a new bottom of the barrel standard?  Scenarios is the only place it would be used in   

The Cromwell at least offers 30mph+ (most sources say 32 mph was max speed) with comparable armor and the same gun as a Sherman M4/75mm.  The optics would be far better than the Sherman M4/75mm, it has the same optics as the British Sherman Firefly (3X-6X) but with only 52mm of armor penetration at 1000 yards whats the use?

The Crusader offers 27mph, 32mm of armor at best, and the 40mm Q.F. 2 Pdr Mk.IX L / 50 cannon.  All we'd really have is a thinly armored tank, with a weak gun, with average speed.  If HTC would venture out and allow the different versions (swap turrets) offered in the hanger (95mm howitzer, the 6 pdr, and the 2 Pdr), then we may have something.

You contradict your own stated logic.  The Cromwell would bring nothing new to the game.  It would be essentially a different skinned T-34/76.  

We do NOT currently have a thinly armored undergunned average-speed tank.  We have an even weaker-armored but faster armored car in the M-8.  Not to mention that this would be only the second tank available in the EWA (that's something new to the game, eh?).

[E25280]

(the Panzer III couldn't traverse turret.)

[iron650]

Got it from first hand accounts and when I saw a picture of it the armor was sloped so it couldn't move.

[Rino]

Well Smokin there were different models with different loadouts. The III we might actually need a different model. The I and II are almost the same. (Keyword: ALMOST.) Wouldn't a Panzer III be almost the same as the Crusader. (the Panzer III couldn't traverse turret.) Also, the EW lacks tanks. The M3 Lee, Panzer III and Crusader could help solve the problems.

     OMG!  We better call someone, this PzKw III is obviously broken! 



     Oh Noes!  This one is too, it's an epidemic! 



     Augh!  Oh the huge manatees!

[Tyrannis]

i personally feel the Lee deserves to be the next tank included into the game, it shared the same important role in North Africa that the Sherman had in Europe. it feels wrong not having it in-game allready.





but on a diff note, does anyone else think the pnzer III looks ALOT better than the pnzer IV?


i look at the III, and it looks MEAN, tough, built to last, and a real fighting tank. then i look at the IV and its looks like an III that got sissified 

[SmokinLoon]

You contradict your own stated logic.  The Cromwell would bring nothing new to the game.  It would be essentially a different skinned T-34/76.  

We do NOT currently have a thinly armored undergunned average-speed tank.  We have an even weaker-armored but faster armored car in the M-8.  Not to mention that this would be only the second tank available in the EWA (that's something new to the game, eh?).

The 75mm on the Cromwell has twice the reload rate, another %20 more HE damage, and the armor would be more similar to the M4/75mm than the T34.  You're right though, it would not be all that different than what we currently have.  But from a British angle, it would be a logical addition, imo.  I can see wanting to add an EW tank since right now the T34/76 is all we have, but the Crusader wont offer any more than the M8 except less speed.  I've read in multiple accounts were HE was not even issued to most Crusader units with the 2 pdr gun.  

If the goal is to add an EW tank, then the Pzr III w/ the 50mm Kw.K. 39 L / 60 (June'42), gets my vote.  If the goal is to add a British tank, then the Cromwell Mk I or Mk IV gets my vote (I'd really like to see the Mk I w/ the 57mm Q.F. 6 Pdr Mk.V L / 50 and mixed AP, APDS, and HE ammo).  If the goal is to add an EW British tank... then I vote to remodel the M8 Greyhound and give it a British skin (yeah yeah, I know HTC frowns upon that, but hey  )

[iron650]

Smokin the M8 is an armored car. 

[SmokinLoon]

Smokin the M8 is an armored car. 

Good for you lad!  You passed the 5th grade!     Maybe I should have spelled it out: since the gun of an EW British tank is no better than the M8 Greyhound, and the armor is really no better on an EW British tank than the M8 Greyhound, then I will suggest HTC put the time and effort in to remodeling/updating the M8 and get much of the same thing.  I'm all about filling in the gaps, and right now there are many more gaps needed filled (imo) than adding a lightly armored, lightly gun, and average to slow speed tank.

Every EW British tank would be a sitting duck vs everything else out there with any remote ability to penetrate armor. 

[iron650]

The M8 is undergunned however if used right it will get kills. Why can't the Crusader do the same?

[SmokinLoon]

The M8 is undergunned however if used right it will get kills. Why can't the Crusader do the same?

Speed.  The Crusader is no faster than the Panzer IV, LVT, etc.  The M8 is the 2nd fastest GV in the game at 60mph +.  If HTC were to want to add in an EW British tank or AC, then the Diamler AC might be better.  It is fast at 50mph, has the 18mm armor, and has the same 40mm 2 Pdr gun as the Crusader tank.

[iron650]

The Crusader can survive better than the Diamler.

[SmokinLoon]

The Crusader can survive better than the Diamler.

I wont argue against that when MG's, light HE cannon (20mm), or even near-misses vs the larger HE rounds (75mm).  However, the there is not an AP round in the game that originates from the main gun of the tank that cant beat both the Diamler AC and Crusader at 2000 yards (or more).  In fact, I'd be willing to bet the Diamler would last longer due to it being able to run and hide faster. 

What would be fun to have is the whole roster of tanks in N. Africa terrains!  The Germans with their Panzer MK's II, III, and IV, Italians with their M 13/40's, and British Matildas, Cruiser Mk's I/II, Crusaders, Valentines, and Sherman variants would be a good time.  Fast firing guns with wide open terrains.  Oh the FUN!!!   

[iron650]

I wont argue against that when MG's, light HE cannon (20mm), or even near-misses vs the larger HE rounds (75mm).  However, the there is not an AP round in the game that originates from the main gun of the tank that cant beat both the Diamler AC and Crusader at 2000 yards (or more).  In fact, I'd be willing to bet the Diamler would last longer due to it being able to run and hide faster. 

What would be fun to have is the whole roster of tanks in N. Africa terrains!  The Germans with their Panzer MK's II, III, and IV, Italians with their M 13/40's, and British Matildas, Cruiser Mk's I/II, Crusaders, Valentines, and Sherman variants would be a good time.  Fast firing guns with wide open terrains.  Oh the FUN!!!   

Don't forget the M3 Grant/Lee. Yes, the desert map will be fun. Wide open terrains. No place to hide.