Author Topic: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread  (Read 3066 times)

Offline oboe

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2011, 06:36:41 AM »
Gun,

The different color would be seen only by players from the same country.  Players from opposing countries would still see all enemy icons as the same color.

Another suggestion was to prefix their handles with a special character like '+' or '^'.   Only same country players see this info.

Cheers
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 06:39:54 AM by oboe »

Offline noTch

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2011, 08:21:04 AM »

C) If experienced players see a new person asking obvious "new player" question like--"How do I start my engine?",  "How do I get my joystick to work?", and "How do I keep from stalling all the time?" To do some one-on-one mentoring.


It's not hard at all to find a clear text/VOX channel and get them to go there and walk them through the "everyday easy's".  You are not only saving them from always doing it on green, you are helping someone new with what I'm pretty sure everyone agrees is a pretty steep learning curve for planes, and almost as bad for gv's and gv/gunnery skills.

This is my favorite thing to do with these folks.  It turns out to be such great fun to pass on what my wife call "trivial information" :D But I do like showing the new guys some great tricks
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Offline Raptor

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2011, 08:45:09 AM »
The only reason I stayed after my free trial was because of the Free H2H arenas. While I understand why HTC would not bring this back how it was, it was part of the game that taught me how to play the game as well as getting me addicted.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2011, 09:03:59 AM »
The only reason I stayed after my free trial was because of the Free H2H arenas. While I understand why HTC would not bring this back how it was, it was part of the game that taught me how to play the game as well as getting me addicted.

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Offline Vinkman

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2011, 12:25:28 PM »
 


I think all of the suggestions for the community to do a better job of looking after new players would work, but won't happen.

New players quit because it is too hard, and takes too long for them to have success, any success. People will only put up with futility for so long. The training arena doesn't work as a learning tool because it does not create the thrill of success. People coming to a game, to discover it, want it to be fun right away. Yes folks could learn in the training arena, but they're not going to forgo action for training, that feels too much like work. The MA provides the action and thrill they are looking for, but it doesn't satisfy their desire for success and victory, because they get pounded by the overwhelming number of veteran players.  

So how do you combine the thrill and fun of the MA, with the learning experience of the TA, in an environment where newbs can actually win and have the success that will keep them interested?

I think a New Player arena would help.

The New Player arena would be a small map and would have good action if anywhere from 6-30 folks where logged on it. The newb arena locks out veterans except for certified trainers. The trainers are there to fly around and explain how things work. The trainers guns are like TA guns [hits but no damage].  Newb's guns are live.
Keeping it staffed with 2 to three trainers is all that would be required. Trainers fly around with/against 6 to 30 players shooting and getting hits, giving tips on the fly, etc. The trainers get a new radio function: Enemy Range Channel. This would let the trainers talk to enemies in Icon range.

In the newb arena, newbs fight each other. Early success would now be attainable for all. Trainers will teach them the basics and explain how the game works, how a base is captured, etc.

Whether a newb would have to go through the newb arena is a matter to discuss. I can see it as another arena on the main clipboard. New players can go to the MA, where they would see what playing at a high level looks like. But after getting pounded there, they could opt to go back and start the process against other green pilots with trainers on hand to help. Veteran players would be locked out from the "New Player" arena. Newbs would have score and rank in the New Player arena, just like MA keeps veteran player's scores.
The newbs will learn how to master the view system, basic gunnery, and ACM by fighting each other. And they will have success because the folks they are playing against will make many of the same mistakes they do. They will learn from each other, and the trainers. They will play in an environment where their skill development will lead directly to better success. This will inspire and encourage them, unlike the MA where everything is futile in the beginning, leading to discouragement and quitting.

It's different from the training arena because the training arena is missing the element of success. No one wins in the Training arena, there is no competition. This leads to disinterest and boredom.
It's different from the MA because while the MA creates competition and action, but it denies them success for too long a period of time, so they lose the motivation to keep playing.

When a person reaches a certain point they are no longer newbs, and are locked out of the Newb arena. What that point is can be experimented with, like a time period, a certain rank, completion of set criteria [drop troops and capture a base, kill x-number of AAA guns, shoot down y-number of planes etc, z-number of bombing points]  

I've heard the argument before that you only learn from playing against better players. But that only works as an advanced concept for folks looking to move from good to expert. It is a terrible concept for folks with no skill, trying to play a very complex game. Would you teach your son to play football by suiting him up, sending him to Baltimore Raven's training camp and putting him in at QB in a live scrimmage against Ray Lewis.? Of course not. You might want to let him play with folks at his own level for a while.

A New Player arena would work better than the current methods because it would provide a more optimized combination of Action, Learning, and Practicing, attributes over what is currently available in the TA or MA. Think of it as little league baseball of fighter pilots.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 12:29:43 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline fuzeman

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2011, 12:44:42 PM »
Some new players just don't want to put the effort in to learn or go to a site that they can learn from.
You can lead that horse to water but you can't make them drink it. Been there, done that in my Trainer days.
95% of them look for the short cuts and 'cheats' that other games have and there are no short cuts or cheats in this game.
You actually have to put in the time and effort to learn some stuff in Aces High. THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT.

NOTE- cheat not meant as in cheat or hack the game, meant as a hit this or that key for special powers type of thing.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline LLogann

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2011, 01:12:54 PM »
Not really true though sir.........   If you are a "friendly" person who talks to all countries, it wouldn't be hard to find where all the new people are flying.  

Identifying "new" people would be a bad thing no matter how you slice it.  

Gun,

The different color would be seen only by players from the same country.  Players from opposing countries would still see all enemy icons as the same color.

Another suggestion was to prefix their handles with a special character like '+' or '^'.   Only same country players see this info.

Cheers
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Offline oboe

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2011, 02:21:57 PM »
Not really true though sir.........   If you are a "friendly" person who talks to all countries, it wouldn't be hard to find where all the new people are flying.  

Identifying "new" people would be a bad thing no matter how you slice it.  


Sad to say, you might be right about that LLogann.   Human nature being what it is and all.

Offline LLogann

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2011, 02:39:05 PM »
It is sad, but true......  Kind of like a Metallica song  :D 

Even in the current conditions, some stuff I can totally agree with, like asking a friend to tell you the location of the CV that is 12 sectors away from the front.  But what would wind up happening is the same conversations would occur with the perk farmers ( I know this because I am one of them ) asking where the new people are flying. 

Sad to say, you might be right about that LLogann.   Human nature being what it is and all.

But you said something about a symbol, instead of a diff color.... That might not be too bad.  At least then it would take more than just pulling up the clipboard.   :cheers:

 :salute
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Offline fuzeman

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2011, 03:00:26 PM »
There used to be a command or check-box someplace that would let you know when a new player entered the arena.
That was back when a new player could mention the person who helped him the most and that helper would get some minor compensation.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline morfiend

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2011, 03:39:00 PM »
Some new players just don't want to put the effort in to learn or go to a site that they can learn from.
You can lead that horse to water but you can't make them drink it. Been there, done that in my Trainer days.
95% of them look for the short cuts and 'cheats' that other games have and there are no short cuts or cheats in this game.
You actually have to put in the time and effort to learn some stuff in Aces High. THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT.

NOTE- cheat not meant as in cheat or hack the game, meant as a hit this or that key for special powers type of thing.

 I tend to agree with you Fuzeman but to be fair I think there are 2 groups of "new" players those that need or want instant success and those that are willing to put "some" time in to be successful.

  Unfortunately the trainers cant be in the TA all the time,there simply isnt enough of us to cover all the timezones and days. One thing that could help though is instead of telling a new player to go to the TA,ask them if you can take them to the TA/DA to show them some of the fundamentals.

  There is a link on the clipboard that directs you to HTC's website but I dont think it's used often enough,one of the reasons could be...see above quote...

  Hopefully with the implementation of user spawned arenas,players who would like to help out new players can setup an arena just for that purpose.


   :salute

Offline Stalwart

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2011, 03:54:41 PM »
Other similar software include a decent set of packaged scenarios right out of the box.
Something AH seriously lacks.

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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2011, 04:00:35 PM »
i think the true reality here is that were not seeing as many true flight Sim players trying the game out,( console type players, not that that's bad now) if you really like flying and flying type Sims then you'll stick it out through the steep learning curve and Subscribe, if there not then they don't Subscribe, i think were seeing more of the players looking for instant kills instant gratification that you get from other games like FPS type,( run around in large groups spray and pray games)  i think that's more in line with the people that are trying it out more so than the true Flight Sim person, the only reason i have stayed so long is because of my love for WWII planes and it's history and flying in general and some of the coolest people ive meet along the way.
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Offline Zoney

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2011, 06:20:12 PM »
"We", who now play, are no different than "they", who are just learning.

It was very difficult for all of us the first day but because we had the desire, we put in the time and effort to learn a little every day, and at the very least get some "seat time".  Each and every mistake teaches us something more.  I still learn something every day.

My point is, the folks coming in are no different than we were.  Many people just won't make the effort and will leave because they are not happy.

This wonderful game is just not for everyone.  Keep bringing in the "2 weekers", some will stay, some will leave.

How should they be treated by the "we" that are now here?  Well, that is the question, your personal answer is the only thing you can control so go do what you think is best.

How do I treat "2 weekers"?  The same way I treat everyone, just read my sig line.
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Offline bustr

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Re: 2-week trial players...spin off from Frustration thread
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2011, 06:36:39 PM »
Todays consol players are no different than how many of us started with boxed PC flight games 25 years ago. How many of you installed the game and hit the instant action button with unlimited ammo in easy combat mode first time out to see what the game had without reading the manual? Even SWOTL had a bomber gunner practice scenario. We worked our way up on the boxed games until we could kill everything in Ace mode with our eyes closed. Then we discovered AW or WB and here we are 20 years later.

The AH offline missions are still catering to SIMMERS and not console players. Too much setup, reading  and following directions to keep them entertained long enough to like the core game. Takes a bit of reading to even discover the offline missions. Instant easy action is what they understand with a button that says "INSTANT ACTION HERE". AW had that offline and if I remember WB had something similar where you could pick your opponent and meet at any alt to duel him.

Put something simple into offline after they push the "INSTANT ACTION HERE" button that lets them have unlimited ammo, ordinance and selectable mode cons to slaughter. After you drop all of your bombs and rockets you hit a hot key and have to wait 30 seconds for a reload in the air. Have 3-5 fixed scenario and a message that for more action open a 2 week trial account in the MA. Even put in a bomber gunner practice scenario along with a tank battle scenario.

How many of you have your offline arena setup configured to 1 for fuel burn and ammo multi to 10x with the auto jabo and lead comp gunsight enabled? I know, thats only for personal testing purposes.......custom gunsights and things like that for data collection purposes. Adults Pool Only.... :)

Cheesey...yes. Too much work for HTC...yes. But, search back through all of the old posts asking us to tell our personal flight sim stories. The common factor was we all started with PC/Consol type games and worked our way up from being lazy instant action dweebs to simmers against AI cons and enemies. Instant gratification from the safety of our PC's and Consol's helped us get to this excellent game.

Anyone seeing any new WW2 air combat titles being released out there for PC or consol lately? I'm seeing lots of TechnoDweeb FPS on Comcast channels. It may be time for the game to raise it's own next generation of players before WW2 becomes a single paragraph in K-12 history books along with the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI, Korea and Viet Nam.
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