no icon for me,none for you

[Karnak]

to think ICONS do not make it easier to track an nme plane, is absurd...I understand all the aspects about the monitor not being able to replicate what your eyes can, does not change the fact that NO nme ever had a giant neon sign over their head, which makes it 100% easier to track an nme, in a game about fighting, if there were no icons the fights would be far less and mostly sneaks,.......like it was in the real war...good thing this is just a game and we got those icons to help us spot the bad guys

It would be a lot harder to maintain SA in the game than it is in reality without icons.  With icons it is easier at further distances and likely similar or a bit harder for things up close.

[100Coogn]

This icon deal has been hashed and re-hashed many times.
Still think that at a far away distance that the icons should be very small,
then get bigger (whatever your font size is) as it gets close.

Coogan

[waystin2]

-1.  The icons are a visual help within the game that are appreciated.  You can turn yours off if you would like, but others may not and most likely will not do the same.  Try the AVA and come back to this wish.

[gyrene81]

whenever i see 1 person in there im in.and no its not harder then i think.its how all arenas should be with the exeption of the TA.thats one of the main reasons i like AvA,no icons and better plane matchups along with an objective other then taking bases

i've checked your stats in the ava...i had more flight time in the ava last month than you have since march...with just over 1 hour of time in the ava since march, mostly in bombers and vehicles, now you want to have an option that will give you an unfair advantage in the main arenas. 

i see it as the more advanced pilots in the game would fly with their icon off.dont forget,if you decide you want a fat icon under you,you can still see other players who have their training wheels on as well

pure and simple that is asking for an unfair advantage...you can still see an icon at 6000 yards but people looking at you are only seeing a dot.


not going to happen in the main arenas thunderhead, most especially the way you're talking about doing it...and i enjoy the no enemy icons...aside from the fact that there are many people playing on 15-17 inch laptop screens, ah does not properly render the shapes and colors at distances where the human eye can actually make them out.

put some more actual flight time in the ava to truly understand the challenges.

[ImADot]

Here's the real problem...

AvA - no enemy icons, short friendly icons; everyone knows this going in, so everyone doesn't expect to see red neon signs and can be prepared for that.

Mains - 6k enemy and 6k friendly icons is standard; everyone knows this going in, so everyone expects it.  YOU decide to not show enemy icons, thus also not showing them yours, but everyone else in the arena is playing standard icons - they are not prepared to look for someone without an icon. You know enemy icons are off (because you chose to turn them off), they do not have icons turned off so aren't looking for a little pixel closing in on them. This wish sounds to me like you want it to be easier to sneak up on someone for easier kills.

[Noir]

general -1

+ it is easy to abuse.

[Krusty]

does not change the fact that NO nme ever had a giant neon sign over their head, which makes it 100% easier to track an nme

Easier to track than what?

That real life? No

Than "no icons" yes.


Of the two, only one needs considering. Hint: It's not as-compared-to the "no icons" setting.

In real life look at cars driving past you. Do they "blend" into the contrast and saturation of the background behind them? Even if similar colors, you instantly and easily spot them and can watch them out the corner of your eye. With super-wide-angle tracking in Aces High and with 99% of all games I've ever seen, pixels blend into pixels. It's hard to tell depth and it's hard to track objects. If you were in a real life situation you could easily spot a person up a block walking across the street 2 stoplights away. The closer, the easier. In this game? Does not turn out to be so.


So INK, your problem is you're ONLY comparing to "no icons" and pretending that's the end-all be-all of answers. It is not. You need to compare to the real world that this game is SUPPOSED to represent. So no, icons don't float over peoples' heads in real life. But they don't need to. In games, they do.

Get it? The end result is nearly the same. You think icons give some false ability. WRONG. The real ability is available in the real world. You can't replicate those results in the game. With icons you come close. In the end you're probably still more capable of identifying and following and engaging aircraft with your real eyes, against real objects, with real lighting and billions of colors, than you are in a 8-bit texture palatte with icons enabled.

[PFactorDave]

-1

The day HITC turns off the icons in the MA is the day I will cancel my subscription.  I've flown in the AvA arena, I have flown in FSO with reduced range icons...  I don't enjoy it at all.  It just makes it that much easier for all the super leet BnZ picker types to do their thing.

This is a game, it is supposed to be fun.  Discouraging combat in favor of more, "I never even saw him" kills doesn't sound fun to me. 

I'm betting that I am in a very large majority on this issue as well.

[Bino]

No "no icons" arena for me, thanks.  I have tried it several times over the years and I do not enjoy it.

And please lose the attitude, with all the "advanced pilots" this, and "training wheels" that.

[ink]

Easier to track than what?

That real life? No

Than "no icons" yes.


Of the two, only one needs considering. Hint: It's not as-compared-to the "no icons" setting.

In real life look at cars driving past you. Do they "blend" into the contrast and saturation of the background behind them? Even if similar colors, you instantly and easily spot them and can watch them out the corner of your eye. With super-wide-angle tracking in Aces High and with 99% of all games I've ever seen, pixels blend into pixels. It's hard to tell depth and it's hard to track objects. If you were in a real life situation you could easily spot a person up a block walking across the street 2 stoplights away. The closer, the easier. In this game? Does not turn out to be so.


So INK, your problem is you're ONLY comparing to "no icons" and pretending that's the end-all be-all of answers. It is not. You need to compare to the real world that this game is SUPPOSED to represent. So no, icons don't float over peoples' heads in real life. But they don't need to. In games, they do.

Get it? The end result is nearly the same. You think icons give some false ability. WRONG. The real ability is available in the real world. You can't replicate those results in the game. With icons you come close. In the end you're probably still more capable of identifying and following and engaging aircraft with your real eyes, against real objects, with real lighting and billions of colors, than you are in a 8-bit texture palatte with icons enabled.

nope I still disagree with you completely on this one,  now matter what you say, the simple fact remains there is a giant neon sign over everyone's head, that allows us to EASILY keep track of nme cons, it was FAR from easy in the RW to keep track of an nme con.....please argue this point 

"ICONS don't float over the planes in the real world because they don't need to" ........seriously......    that statement is asinine.

sorry but icons do give us an unnatural ability to find and keep track of nme cons, other wise like I said before it would be a lot more like the RW were many fighters would just fly by each other with out EVER seeing each other, please tell me I am wrong that many fights never happened because they didn't "see" each other.

YOU are wrong period, it happens it's OK you are human and none of us are perfect

[SlapShot]

I don't know Ink ... I was in a couple of fights last night in Midwar, and once engaged, and the opponent is "deathly close", I don't believe that I ever look at the "icon". My eyes are on the plane and watching it's wings.

The only time that I ever really use the icons is to determine the distance the enemy is at and it's closure rate ... + or -.

I was engaged with a P-38, P-51, La-5, and an FM2 in a fight last night. All I could do was "avoid" and every time I looked around, it was to find each plane and see how far away and if it was closing or going away and then using that information to determine how I was going to make my next move. Without that information, and under those conditions, they all pretty much look to be the same size ... to me.

When planes are between 2.0 and 1.0 away from me, they look to be the same size and the same could be said when I see planes 1.0 to 600 away from me ... and this is due to the fact that depth perception and lighting in this game is no where near what I can see in real life.

So yes I do look for the icons in these situations, not to identify, but to determine distance and closure/extension rates.

There is no way in he-double-hockey-sticks that this game could render (in detail) what we see in real life when it comes to depth perception and lighting which is key to depth perception.

I don't consider icons a crutch or unfair at all ... icons make this game enjoyably playable.

[ink]

I don't know Ink ... I was in a couple of fights last night in Midwar, and once engaged, and the opponent is "deathly close", I don't believe that I ever look at the "icon". My eyes are on the plane and watching it's wings.

The only time that I ever really use the icons is to determine the distance the enemy is at and it's closure rate ... + or -.

I was engaged with a P-38, P-51, La-5, and an FM2 in a fight last night. All I could do was "avoid" and every time I looked around, it was to find each plane and see how far away and if it was closing or going away and then using that information to determine how I was going to make my next move. Without that information, and under those conditions, they all pretty much look to be the same size ... to me.

When planes are between 2.0 and 1.0 away from me, they look to be the same size and the same could be said when I see planes 1.0 to 600 away from me ... and this is due to the fact that depth perception and lighting in this game is no where near what I can see in real life.

So yes I do look for the icons in these situations, not to identify, but to determine distance and closure/extension rates.

There is no way in he-double-hockey-sticks that this game could render (in detail) what we see in real life when it comes to depth perception and lighting which is key to depth perception.

I don't consider icons a crutch or unfair at all ... icons make this game enjoyably playable.

I do agree that the game can not render what we see perfectly.....whether you were looking at the icons or not that close to you, they are still there and you still "see" them.....I also watch the planes when they are close to see what they are doing, and not the icon, but it is still there in our vision and we can "see" the plane that much easier, it allows us to easily track an nme con, with out those Icons it aint so easy.

many many fights never happened in the RW due to the fact that planes just didn't "see" each other, most kills were done by coming in and sneaking a kill with out being seen,I am sure the ones killed were not just flying along with out looking for nme cons, but yet never saw the con that got them, why is that?
   hell Eric Hartman was a master at the sneak, almost ALL his kills were done this way, how could he "sneak" up on someone if he had a big ol neon sign over his head?  he would not have been able to..... period.

[BnZs]

sorry but icons do give us an unnatural ability to find and keep track of nme cons, other wise like I said before it would be a lot more like the RW were many fighters would just fly by each other with out EVER seeing each other, please tell me I am wrong that many fights never happened because they didn't "see" each other.

You're wrong. A Cessna crossing your path two miles off looks like its sitting on your cowling.

You can easily tell whether or not you are looking at a car or a pickup at 6000 feet AGL.

The ONLY difficulty with spotting other aircraft is that there is an enormous amount of sky to cover. Once you "have them", they are easy to track and identify.

The estimate that "80 percent" of planes shot down never saw the enemy is largely based on a single source, Erich Hartmann's accounts. People who have interviewed multiple fighter pilots about their encounters put this figure much lower, as low as 20%. Pointing out that Hartmann was master of the sneak illuminates the fact that approaching unseen is hardly a given. Furthermore, we know that Hartmann was likely to simply break off combat IF detected. So his estimate might be very high compared to reality.

Icons exist, DESPITE a sim culture that is otherwise largely obsessed with realism because they are NECESSARY. In particular, no-icons in AHII such as making altitude a disadvantage, and giving the advantage to those who turn their resolutions very low to increase the size of the "dots".

[ink]

You're wrong. A Cessna crossing your path two miles off looks like its sitting on your cowling.

You can easily tell whether or not you are looking at a car or a pickup at 6000 feet AGL.

The ONLY difficulty with spotting other aircraft is that there is an enormous amount of sky to cover. Once you "have them", they are easy to track and identify.

The estimate that "80 percent" of planes shot down never saw the enemy is largely based on a single source, Erich Hartmann's accounts. People who have interviewed multiple fighter pilots about their encounters put this figure much lower, as low as 20%. Pointing out that Hartmann was master of the sneak illuminates the fact that approaching unseen is hardly a given. Furthermore, we know that Hartmann was likely to simply break off combat IF detected. So his estimate might be very high compared to reality.

Icons exist, DESPITE a sim culture that is otherwise largely obsessed with realism because they are NECESSARY. In particular, no-icons in AHII such as making altitude a disadvantage, and giving the advantage to those who turn their resolutions very low to increase the size of the "dots".

nope not "wrong" and icons are far from "necessary" they make it Easy to see and keep track of nme.
how many "cons" in this screenshot?  
so what you and Krusty are saying you would be able to "see" all the cons in this screenshot if it was the RW?  that's what you are saying?



and your figures on nme that didn't see each other is way off.

but what ever you guys can be delusional all you want, thinking a huge neon sign in red the size of a plane makes up the difference in what the monitor cannot display is quite funny.....

to say it makes it more realistic is even funner  

how many cons are in that pic? lots of em.

[BnZs]

Ink, you are arguing with someone who actual experience spotting air traffic and generally observing the world in as seen from an airplane. Planes are big. The sky is empty.

Hitech himself has stated that it is easier to track airplanes during mah-noovering in r/l than it is in here.

nope not "wrong" and icons are far from "necessary" they make it Easy to see and keep track of nme.
how many "cons" in this screenshot?  
so what you and Krusty are saying you would be able to "see" all the cons in this screenshot if it was the RW?  that's what you are saying?

(Image removed from quote.)