self propelled arty now practical?

[Tilt]

I think if your going to use a spotter it has to be a land based spotter. I dont think ballons were commonly used in WWII.

One methodology would be to "deploy" him once the artilery was within range.  The player would click on the map and the grunt would deploy to that spot. He could then be moved as per normal bailed pilot running/walking until he was at some point where he could view the shells fall via zoom view (binoculars). Like RL spotters he would be limited by local terrain as to the effectiveness of his view.

The game may as well then give the player the ability to adjust elevation and direction whilst looking at shell fall from the spotters point of view. Indeed firing may as well be done from this view. (just as the tank commander can now fire) moving between the spotters view and the artilery mans view would be just as it is now for moving between different  views on many GV's. To move the artilery to another location would require the use of the view local to the artilery piece its self.

Long range arty then has a time factor (positioning the spotter) built into its effectiveness and limits its gamey component as  a no risk rapid   "automated town killer".

[iron650]

Krusty, the balloon would be giant anyone can hit it. You would pretty much be killed as soon as you go up in a balloon. I'm not sure of a dirigibles use in WWII. Also, have streaks following the shell so you can see where it came from. Plus, I think they had thin armor so they are able to be hunted down by armored cars and light tanks. (More purpose for them than skirmishing.)

[Scotty55OEFVet]

Barrage Balloons were used in WWII only as a deterrent to keep low flying Aircraft from strafing Troop Concentrations, Assault Craft, etc....but, maybe a Pathfinder type deal. Say from a C47. Instead of the 10 troops, Vehicle Supps, Base supps, how about the ability when you select the troops in goon to have the option of selecting secondary and it is 1 Pathfinder used for the Arty Spotting?

[Skyguns MKII]

Say from a C47. Instead of the 10 troops, Vehicle Supps, Base supps, how about the ability when you select the troops in goon to have the option of selecting secondary and it is 1 Pathfinder used for the Arty Spotting?

i find THIS interesting

[Krusty]

Krusty, the balloon would be giant anyone can hit it.

Nah, see balloons were common, easily replaced... The balloon would only be a view station, a "come here, hunt me down!" flag to anybody within miles, but would not be a damage point. You would have to bomb/strafe/shell the actual deployed arty on the ground, right below the balloon.

The balloon is just the means to a viewpoint and to spotting the bad guys. The emphasis is on the gun itself. You need to nail the gun/truck towing it to stop it.

EDIT: Look, I'm not saying it's 100% realistic. It is a combination of things that is "relatively realistic." The problem is any other suggestion so far involves magic game code or trying to replicate 1 part of a giant machine full of many cogs without taking into account the other parts of the machine. Spotters do no good by themselves. Where is the arty coming from? Where is it parked? Does it exist or like Battlefield: Bad Company 2 does it just rain from the sky like magic?

My idea isn't 100% realistic, but it does cover all the bases and is much closer to existing GV play and code than any of the other ideas.

[iron650]

Krusty, you are saying it's small, yet you're saying it's "come here and hunt me down" and can be seen for miles?  Now I'm not sure about this. But, normally something big can be seen for miles.

[Krusty]

I'm not talking zeppelins, keep in mind. If you actually look around when you're at your town you might see the balloon over a hill a few miles out. That's your "I'm here" sign. The defenders can spot you. Now, the attacker using the balloon still can fire until the bad guys close in on him, and he can lower it, reposition, and redeploy it elsewhere (assuming he's not killed).


Or he can just set up behind a major GV invasion and let all his tanker buddies in front of him kill the bad guys as they sweep in to the town, all the while he's shelling it. You know how you can spot a GV way out but it's still distant? Same deal here. You can spot it, but it's still only some 20-feet long.


EDIT: I think that makes the difference, personally. All the other "Jeeps with binoculars" or "troop/commando with radio" stuff is about doing stuff with no threat of being spotted. The suggestion I've presented does not shirk from the fight. There would be a definite cat-and-mouse game between you and field defenders if you wanted to use this by yourself without any backup.

[321BAR]

I'm not talking zeppelins, keep in mind. If you actually look around when you're at your town you might see the balloon over a hill a few miles out. That's your "I'm here" sign. The defenders can spot you. Now, the attacker using the balloon still can fire until the bad guys close in on him, and he can lower it, reposition, and redeploy it elsewhere (assuming he's not killed).


Or he can just set up behind a major GV invasion and let all his tanker buddies in front of him kill the bad guys as they sweep in to the town, all the while he's shelling it. You know how you can spot a GV way out but it's still distant? Same deal here. You can spot it, but it's still only some 20-feet long.


EDIT: I think that makes the difference, personally. All the other "Jeeps with binoculars" or "troop/commando with radio" stuff is about doing stuff with no threat of being spotted. The suggestion I've presented does not shirk from the fight. There would be a definite cat-and-mouse game between you and field defenders if you wanted to use this by yourself without any backup.

with the artie shells coming in you can track it without the balloon already. whether they use the GV shell tracers or the 8" streams you can track it

[Krusty]

It's not always so easy to follow a tank shell back to the GV, especially if it's miles away now. This is smaller diameter than a shore battery or ship gun. Coupled with terrain clutter you probably wouldn't be able to spot it firing from multiple miles away. Not to mention the balloon gives you elevated position allowing you to be your own target spotter.

It's all tied in together. Everything serves multiple purposes. Without the balloon, you remain hidden, and also cannot aim/fire your shots properly.

[iron650]

It's all tied in together. Everything serves multiple purposes. Without the balloon, you remain hidden, and also cannot aim/fire your shots properly.

That's why spotter aircraft can be added. Spotter aircraft can point the gun (if he's set as wingman by clicking or so) to the general area and receive perkies while helping the arty do his job. Or the gun can go solo and try calculating on his own.

[Scotty55OEFVet]

Instead of the 10 troops, Vehicle Supps, Base supps, how about the ability when you select the troops in goon to have the option of selecting secondary and it is 1 Pathfinder used for the Arty Spotting?

This is your Spotter....Artillery has no "tracer" that follows it...Naval guns could be the exception because as a British Para behind the Atlantic Wall on D-Day as the Naval Bombardment began, "Blimey Sir, their throwing Jeeps at Jerry!" 8" shells up to the big 16" shells can be seen by the naked eye. Artillery cannot. All you get with Artillery is the report when fired and then the splash of rounds. This is why I said "Pathfinder as a Spotter." He would send corrections to the Artillery Batt as far as add/subtract and fire for effect.

[Wiley]

This is your Spotter....Artillery has no "tracer" that follows it...Naval guns could be the exception because as a British Para behind the Atlantic Wall on D-Day as the Naval Bombardment began, "Blimey Sir, their throwing Jeeps at Jerry!" 8" shells up to the big 16" shells can be seen by the naked eye. Artillery cannot. All you get with Artillery is the report when fired and then the splash of rounds. This is why I said "Pathfinder as a Spotter." He would send corrections to the Artillery Batt as far as add/subtract and fire for effect.

So effectively, you've got a really difficult to detect town killer that is somewhere within a 30+ square mile area?

Realistic?  Sure.  Good for gameplay?  I would be less inclined to think so.

The tracers might be gamey, but it seems to me the simplest thing to do to give some means of tracking them down other than organizing a grid search.

It's all tied in together. Everything serves multiple purposes. Without the balloon, you remain hidden, and also cannot aim/fire your shots properly.

It'd be interesting, one problem I could see would be if a guy that knows what he's doing pops the balloon to walk his shots onto a specific building in town, collapses his balloon, then has a pattern figured out to fire that will take out the better part of the town.  I do like the balloon idea though.  Other than the guy I mentioned above with way too much time on his hands, it seems like a good mix between ability to detect and effectiveness for the artillery.

Wiley.

[DREDIOCK]

The "not practical" part of artillery is still the same as it has always been:

Non-LOS shooting.

Using artillery as it was meant to be used, shooting a barrage at something you can't see. You need maps. Accurate maps. Then you need someone to tell you where your rounds are landing so you can adjust.

Figure that out then artillery can be practical.


wrongway

already done this with CV guns

[Skyguns MKII]

That's why spotter aircraft can be added. Spotter aircraft can point the gun (if he's set as wingman by clicking or so) to the general area and receive perkies while helping the arty do his job. Or the gun can go solo and try calculating on his own.

THIS

[Rob52240]

Better not suggest anything with an open top, the forum crowd will eat you alive.