What type of setup would you like to see!

[Puma44]

^-- This.

The "no icons" isn't very historic IMO because it changes the entire dynamic. No more before-combat-manuvers, no more seeing incoming cons and reacting appropriately. While I can see a limited appeal in doing no-icons, I think that in regards to "historical" it really cuts back on what you historically can replicate. It would be like having a maximum down-draft to keep all fights below 5k alts... If you did it, sure it can work, and you might have fun, but it really limits your abilities based on historical accounts of what the real guys did in the real deal.

I wouldn't mind seeing full icons not only in AvA but in FSO as well (there's almost no real reason to have short icons in FSO, IMO), but I think I agree with the "historical arena" rather than the "realism arena"

I like to get immersed. I don't like minutae. That's why I don't fly MSFS X with 10 million buttons and you have to actually click the lever to pull the throttle in or out, etc. I want to pretend I'm Marseille getting kills, not Marseille filling out paperwork because he lost yet another aircraft.

 

So, having a green or red banner over the aircraft is historical in what regard?   I may be wrong but, banner towing wasn't invented until after WWII at some point in time. I do agree that "no icons" changes the dynamic, it brings in a touch of reality that the banners don't.



No more before-combat-manuvers, no more seeing incoming cons and reacting appropriately......Huh?  It's done everyday in the AvA.  Or did I misunderstand what you meant?  

[ImADot]

How about getting back on track with the OP...it's not about icons or no icons; that's been beaten past death.  I'm almost thinking it should be a Rule # like talking about politics. 

[Puma44]

How about getting back on track with the OP...it's not about icons or no icons; that's been beaten past death.  I'm almost thinking it should be a Rule # like talking about politics.  

Agree!    So, why does it seem that those who don't frequent the AvA much continue to beat it to death?  After all, if one doesn't like the no icon setup, it's quite easy to go to one of the MAs that have hundreds of icons to look at.  Just a thought, or two.      

[captain1ma]

well put dot! <S>

[Nr_RaVeN]

Agree!    So, why does it seem that those who don't frequent the AvA much continue to beat it to death?  After all, if one doesn't like the no icon setup, it's quite easy to go to one of the MAs that have hundreds of icons to look at.  Just a thought, or two.      

(Image removed from quote.)

I think its because they feel threatend do to lack of experience with those settings..
 
Those that promote No icons have experience in both no icon, limeted icon and full icon settings. Those that complane about no icons generally have no measurable experience or flight time with no icons settings...They have not mastered the environment and are not willing to work at it they get frustrated when they get killed by those that have they either give up or let there egos get in they way and say no icons isn't realistic to justify there lack of experience...

This is only my individual opinion and in no way represents the opinions of the AVA staff as a whole..

[oboe]

What about holding some sort of event or contest to get people into the arena? 

I remember back in WarBirds - once a week I think it was, on of the IEN staff would fly an a/c with the handle "KILLME", once for each country (Red, Green, Gold, Purple) in turn.   Whoever shot down KILLME got a nice announcement over the open channel, and WarBirds T-shirt was sent to them.   I thought it was a lot of fun, and I even managed to win a T-shirt once.

Might be a way to get a bunch of people into the arena and get them familiar with the environment without having them spaz out over the different icon setting, limited planeset, only two sides, etc.   They'll be concentrating on hunting KILLME, and might have a lot of fun without worrying about the arena.  They might learn to like it inspite of themselves.

Do a PR campaign beforehand, run it once a week for a month and see what happens.   I'd be happy to pay for the first T-shirt (or maybe a coffee mug?) prize.   Just get one of our great artists (Cactuskooler?) to create a cool image.   

And I will put a sticky-note on my keyboard to check the AvA first next time I fly AH.   Gotta break the MA habit, and try to get the 80th in there when you've got 38s available.

[Chilli]

What about holding some sort of event or contest to get people into the arena? 

I remember back in WarBirds - once a week I think it was, on of the IEN staff would fly an a/c with the handle "KILLME", once for each country (Red, Green, Gold, Purple) in turn.   Whoever shot down KILLME got a nice announcement over the open channel, and WarBirds T-shirt was sent to them.   I thought it was a lot of fun, and I even managed to win a T-shirt once.

Might be a way to get a bunch of people into the arena and get them familiar with the environment without having them spaz out over the different icon setting, limited planeset, only two sides, etc.   They'll be concentrating on hunting KILLME, and might have a lot of fun without worrying about the arena.  They might learn to like it inspite of themselves.

Do a PR campaign beforehand, run it once a week for a month and see what happens.   I'd be happy to pay for the first T-shirt (or maybe a coffee mug?) prize.   Just get one of our great artists (Cactuskooler?) to create a cool image.   

And I will put a sticky-note on my keyboard to check the AvA first next time I fly AH.   Gotta break the MA habit, and try to get the 80th in there when you've got 38s available.

So Oboe we agree 100%.  Here is proof, just roll back the calander and pick out events / setups that you would like to see run, to answer the OP's question, what kind of stuff would you like? 

  For the most part if you click on the date/setup it will direct you to details on the setups, including maps, planesets, and even appropriate skins on occasion.  << folks seem to like that Jaeger, and has been requested.  Make sure you check out the "Home" button also, there is a film generated from an event such as you are proposing.

I think what we NEED mostly is to educate folks that convincing 1 or 2 others to join you in the AvA when it is empty will lead to possibly hours of fun.  Basically, the reason that you and most other players have heard so little about the arena is that.  I make announcements here and there, and the response is mostly always the same.  It sure is a good arena.  It is a shame it is always empty. 

I have heard folks in the MA get riled up over the results of a fight with someone and never do they challenge them to an AVA duel!!!   They always go bet you wouldn't DA me!!   Or you wouldn't do that to me in a 1 on 1.  If these folks really liked 1 on 1 fights so much, why don't they grab someone and go to the AvA?  That is all I am saying 

[oboe]

I clicked on the "HOME" link but saw only two films - Blood and Iron and AvA promo.   I rolled through the calendar back to January and didn't notice any contests listed - it looked like all typical scenario-type matchups, which is fine - but I didn't see a contest like the WarBird's KILLME event.

Can you link me to it directly?   Sorry I missed it!

[ImADot]

I'm still trying to think of some ideas.  Until then, another opinion of mine as to why more don't come to AvA: historical plane matchups with limited planesets. People won't come in unless their favorite [Late War] ride is in the planeset, whether it be Allied or Axis.

Most people need their egos stroked, so hesitate to come to an arena with unfamiliar planes and a small audience to witness their greatness when they land two kills.

[Krusty]

He asked for opinions. Icons were mentioned. Historical arena was commented.

I'm really shocked that the same old guard every time starts insulting. It's always "If you don't like no-icons, then you are a no-talent idiot" -- every damn time.

Its old folks. Puma, you should do some searching. This idea has been rehashed many times and even just recently in (yet another) wishlist item for no-icons in the MAs. [EDIT: Okay I saved you the 2 seconds to look it up: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,315098.msg4089675.html#msg4089675 ]

NR Raven, shame on you for even making such a bald-faced accusation. 99% of the folks decrying no-icons have more experience than you or I put together in a multitude of game environments and in real life.

I had a point, which you all missed and went straight to the insults. The point was: I like the historical aspect of it, not the "realism" aspect (because it's not realistic at all). To that end, the settings you are choosing are promoting unhistorical confrontations and unhistorical results.

This is born out not only in the plane stats from recent setups (remember where the slow obsolete but very turny planes beat out all the US rides with better strength, speed, and firepower?) and leads to gaming the game more than it does to true and honest combat experiences. I'm not getting into proving you all wrong on icons (again). I'm talking directly about the subject at hand: the settings and setups of the AvA arena and suggestions/comments to help improve it. You will note I'm not advocating icons out to 25k or any such absurdity. You don't all have to go off on the insult-tyrade-train at the drop of a hat.

[jimson]

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[oboe]

Is there any way to find a compromise on the icon issue?   For example, what about a new icon setting that is sort of the inverse to the short icon - you see long range icons for enemy a/c but when you close to near gunnery range - say 1.5 or 2K, the icons flip off?   Would a setting like that satisfy at least partially, the major concerns of both sides.

I think WWII Online had a great idea with icons that would fade in and out depending on distance and how long you maintained your view in the direction of the bogey.

But back to the point, most people I think know the general parameters of the AvA - limited planesets and icons, and a two-sided arena.   So they choose or don't choose to go there based on preference, and most people apparently prefer not to.  And then of course people see the low numbers in the arena and that reinforces the choice of not going in.   But rather than try to convince people about how great the arena settings are, just give them a reason completely apart from the settings to come in - think of it as an arena open-house with the incentive of a door prize.   

You'll get over the arena population limitation and maybe get quite a few new folks in to try it.

[Nr_RaVeN]

He asked for opinions. Icons were mentioned. Historical arena was commented.

I'm really shocked that the same old guard every time starts insulting. It's always "If you don't like no-icons, then you are a no-talent idiot" -- every damn time.

Its old folks. Puma, you should do some searching. This idea has been rehashed many times and even just recently in (yet another) wishlist item for no-icons in the MAs. [EDIT: Okay I saved you the 2 seconds to look it up: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,315098.msg4089675.html#msg4089675 ]

NR Raven, shame on you for even making such a bald-faced accusation. 99% of the folks decrying no-icons have more experience than you or I put together in a multitude of game environments and in real life.

I had a point, which you all missed and went straight to the insults. The point was: I like the historical aspect of it, not the "realism" aspect (because it's not realistic at all). To that end, the settings you are choosing are promoting unhistorical confrontations and unhistorical results.

This is born out not only in the plane stats from recent setups (remember where the slow obsolete but very turny planes beat out all the US rides with better strength, speed, and firepower?) and leads to gaming the game more than it does to true and honest combat experiences. I'm not getting into proving you all wrong on icons (again). I'm talking directly about the subject at hand: the settings and setups of the AvA arena and suggestions/comments to help improve it. You will note I'm not advocating icons out to 25k or any such absurdity. You don't all have to go off on the insult-tyrade-train at the drop of a hat.

You missed my point and took a fact as an insult..

 Lets just agree to disagree before it gets ugly... Pm  me if you want to continue this I have some points of my own to make that would be more appropriate vie PM

[Chilli]

> snip <

But back to the point, most people I think know the general parameters of the AvA - limited planesets and icons, and a two-sided arena.   So they choose or don't choose to go there based on preference, and most people apparently prefer not to.  And then of course people see the low numbers in the arena and that reinforces the choice of not going in.   But rather than try to convince people about how great the arena settings are, just give them a reason completely apart from the settings to come in - think of it as an arena open-house with the incentive of a door prize.   

You'll get over the arena population limitation and maybe get quite a few new folks in to try it.

  The Blood and Iron trailer film came directly from a film contest that I personally did a hell of a lot of promotion for.  Jaeger ran a contest to kill Yamamoto, that was a huge success.  Jaeger, assumed the roll of Yamamoto in a formation of Japanese bombers, along with several other formations and escort fighters.  The allies win condition was to find and down all 3 bombers that Jaeger flew, before Japanese objectives were met.

I am sorry, but I remembered there being a lot more discussion including cartoon commanders films instructors on the website.  I was mistaken to send you there for event information, but there was a long time during the first of the year where one day events occurred almost every Thursday night, and we certainly agree that it was good for bringing in new faces.

So I guess I didn't make it clear that I am saying  +1 for challenges.  That is mostly due to the latest innovation of having 24/7 objectives that I favor a hundred times more.  But having one does not exclude the other, so my vote goes to having both.
 

[USRanger]

I'm thinking about running a "Fly Naked Friday" event each week.