Author Topic: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective  (Read 711 times)

Offline doright

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Being relatively new to Aces High but far from new to online air combat (ya I know, one would think I would have gotten better by now). I thought I would throw some internet historical perspective in on the HO question. That internet historical perspective revolves around NETLAG.

The best primer on the netlag applied to air combat I found back in the slow, slow dial-up ages (ping below 1000 was great) was this http://www.errthum.com/troy/warbirds/tests/netlag.html. That link is discussing collisions (use to be 10^6 times the problem it is today) but much of it applies to gunnery as well. If you scroll down you will see a graphic for a Mustang and Dora going head to head with the Mustang maneuvering away at the end. Imagine that the Dora opened fire. On the Dora's front end the bullets would hit the Mustang causing a hit packets to be sent to the host. The host sends these hit packets on to the Mustang who receives them then explodes into fiery scraps of digital aluminum. The Mustang pilot is terribly surprised, incensed, and throwing the joystick through his CRT monitor because he knows there is no way the Dora could of hit him from what he saw on his front end. The Mustang pilot did the correct thing by maneuvering away from the HO and is penalized by the structure of the internet and game software. This is the primary reason the dial-up HO became an evil action, its' practitioners to be ostracized from the community. An attitude that has persisted from the Commodore 64 300 baud dial-up era into the fiber optic home supercomputer age.

The secondary reason the HO is not considered a valid tactic is that the entire time you are flying straight at the enemy you are giving up the potential to lead turn and gain significant angles on your target. A clear insult to the fine art of fighter combat tacits and maneuvering. All fine and good if your in an one-on-one fight but slightly less applicable to an e-fighter vs. angles fighter and maybe not at all applicable in a high threat environment (red cloud around you).

The tertiary reason is that newbies falling straight out of the nest into their first dog fight will maneuver only to put and keep the pipper on the target. Since none of us glorious aces like to be thought of as a fledgling the HO is also associated with noob behavior.

The fourth reason is that on the internet lives are cheap and you instantly reanimate (Ace Zombies High). So another internet behavior is to press the straight in attack - you just might win the joust after all. A truly dweeb behavior that dispenses with the a real pilot's aversion to having high speed lead, steel, and aluminum flying straight at their oh so fragile craft and single life body.

Enough of my old dude self-styled wisdom. I would like to know from knowledgeable people, given the netlag origin of the HO taboo, how much netlag effects the game in its' present high performance form? Has anybody tested it and posted ace saw/dweeb saw side by side comparisons? The film viewer doesn't seem to do the flight path smoothing of planes around us we see in the game so I'm not sure that makes for good comparison data.

And finally before screaming HOtard on 200 or PMing perhaps you should consider that what you saw on your monitor is only one out of the hundreds of perspectives all different seen by the other pilots on line. Especially if reason 2 may apply (a HO^2, or HO squared?). If however HOtard to the forth power applies scream away.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 06:55:26 PM by doright »
Armaments 3:9 "Fireth thee not in their forward quarters lest thee be beset by 200 imps and be naughty in their sight."

Offline ozrocker

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 07:55:36 AM »
 :rolleyes: Yet another Ho thread. I avoid the Ho, not a good tactic.
If base overwhelmed, I will Ho if outnumbered.
However, it's sometimes hard to avoid. It was used quite often in WW2.
Lag does play a part. So many front quarter shots, especially in a climb
are called ho's by some.
I guess it's a means for them to justify why they got shot down.
To some, it seems anything not shot at 6, is called a Ho.

                                                                                                                               :cheers: Oz
Flying and dying since Tour 29
The world is grown so bad. That wrens make prey where eagles dare not perch.- Shakespeare
 
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 09:44:50 AM »
HO's don't look good on camera  :noid
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Offline FLS

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 10:00:39 AM »
IIRC the Church of the Blessed NOHO was founded in Air Warrior based on the Revelation of the Hit Bubble. Net lag was not the issue. Current doctrine contends that the NOHO makes fights more challenging even though it clearly makes the head on merge easier.  Some adherents believe that any front quarter shot which kills you can be excused as a HO which allows the actual loser to self identify as the moral winner.   :devil

Offline Krusty

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2011, 10:21:59 AM »
Has nothing to do with netlag, or dweebism... The HO itself is not lame/dweebish, but rather SOMETIMES (not always) is an indication of an already lame/dweebish pilot.

If a pilot can only ever go for a cheap HO at the expense of any kind of manuvering.. If a pilot cannot can't do the most basic of manuvers to merge or get a better shot... If a pilot dives past 3 better targets that require a modicum of manuvering to get a quick and easy kill, but ignores them for the no-skill HO shot then runs....

If a pilot is completely and utterly pathetically BAD and only HOs and runs repeatedly... Then a HO is a bad thing.

Keep in mind however this HO is only lame/dweeby by proxy. The real quality of the move is imparted by the pilot himself/herself. They make it lame (or great), but by itself it is neither. It's all in the surrounding context. That is where people fail to think about the matter. They are told HOs are bad, but it's not the move so much as the person using it improperly.

Offline doright

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2011, 01:46:31 PM »
IIRC the Church of the Blessed NOHO was founded in Air Warrior based on the Revelation of the Hit Bubble. Net lag was not the issue. Current doctrine contends that the NOHO makes fights more challenging even though it clearly makes the head on merge easier.  Some adherents believe that any front quarter shot which kills you can be excused as a HO which allows the actual loser to self identify as the moral winner.   :devil

"Church of the Blessed NOHO" LOL. Excellent post. Hit bubbles and aggragated rounds, things best left in the parts of the memory sealed off for your mental well being.

Armanments 3:9  "Fireth thee not in front of the 3/9 lest thee be afflicted by 200 imps and be found naughty in their sight."
Armaments 3:9 "Fireth thee not in their forward quarters lest thee be beset by 200 imps and be naughty in their sight."

Offline LCADolby

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 02:17:42 PM »
If a pilot is completely and utterly pathetically BAD and only HOs and runs repeatedly... Then a HO is a bad thing.
A shameful waste of ammunition
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Offline doright

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2011, 02:08:46 AM »
Has nothing to do with netlag, or dweebism... The HO itself is not lame/dweebish, but rather SOMETIMES (not always) is an indication of an already lame/dweebish pilot...

Well actually as I tried to illustrate, and FLS elaborated in the HO was historically an evil for internet air combat because it was an exploit of the hardware limitations of the time. Those limitations aren't what it used to be but the vindictiveness against the HO has not decreased in proportion, just perpeptuated and been applied with the same vindictiveness to lessor reasons.
Armaments 3:9 "Fireth thee not in their forward quarters lest thee be beset by 200 imps and be naughty in their sight."

Offline killnu

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2011, 03:22:09 AM »
it is weak...unless I do it
Karma, it follows you every where you go...

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Offline Yeager

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 09:51:42 AM »
Don't waste your time with this (the gamers will whine no matter what). 
you have a cartoon gun, use it (the gamers will whine no matter what). 
If you want to survive the fight then fly smart (the gamers will whine no matter what).
Take your shots when you get them (the gamers will whine no matter what).
Avoid your enemies guns if at all possible (the gamers will whine no matter what).

Ultimately, the gamers will whine no matter what, so just enjoy your time and play by your own standards.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 10:07:09 AM »
Don't waste your time with this (the gamers will whine no matter what). 
you have a cartoon gun, use it (the gamers will whine no matter what). 
If you want to survive the fight then fly smart (the gamers will whine no matter what).
Take your shots when you get them (the gamers will whine no matter what).
Avoid your enemies guns if at all possible (the gamers will whine no matter what).

Ultimately, the gamers will whine no matter what, so just enjoy your time and play by your own standards.

 :rofl I don't know if it was intentional on your part Yeager, but I read that post in the voice of one guy speaking the first part, with 'the gamers will whine no matter what' done gregorian-chant style, and I can't stop laughing.  Thank you for that on a Friday morning.

Wiley.
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2011, 01:16:10 PM »
By all means, let them go for the HO.

A straight-on merge is a surefire way to ensure that he of little 3D conceptualization ability develops a rear-view mirror problem within about 15 seconds.

Offline shdo

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Re: HO's Evil, Newbie and Dweebish? An Internet Historical Prespective
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2011, 02:13:59 PM »
Hey doright,

thanks for the links - hadn't seen em in 10+ years and then the link to Hoof's page.  I had forgotten him and it brings back good memories.

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