Author Topic: 2 LW arenas  (Read 2363 times)

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8054
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2011, 04:40:59 PM »
 :huh You're not 'hiding' in the conventional sense, but everything you've described about that mission talks about how it deflects attention away and minimizes the possibility of detection or attack.  Everything about your description states how they won't notice the attack for these reasons.

At least it's a way of avoiding combat that takes a little creativity, I'll grant you that.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2011, 04:49:57 PM »
ahhh but I'm not hiding. I'm right out there. I'm just using tactics to get the job done with the least number of people. If I had more I'd run a different plan, something a bit more head to head. The point is you don't HAVE to run NOE, you don't HAVE to have 30 guys. There are ways around it. And on top of that picture this, instead of having one big horde hitting a single base you could have 4 or 5 fights going on at the same time up and down one or BOTH fronts creating more places to "have fun".

How 4 or 5 sneaks, which by definition are  only going to be successful if the other side doesn't notice, are less an avoidance of actual fighting then 1 big overwhelming attack, I just don't see.  I don't see that either approach encourages any fighting at all.    

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline MaSonZ

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2074
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2011, 07:18:18 PM »
a complaint already  :O






2 weeks  :bolt:










 :noid
"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
HogDweeb

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17674
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2011, 08:05:48 PM »
How 4 or 5 sneaks, which by definition are  only going to be successful if the other side doesn't notice, are less an avoidance of actual fighting then 1 big overwhelming attack, I just don't see.  I don't see that either approach encourages any fighting at all.    

I'm using tactics, where as your comparing them to endless NOE horde attacks.

A mission with tactics can be defeated with better tactics. Miss-direction isn't avoiding a fight, its out plating the other players. Horde NOE doesn't take any skill, or thought, and in most case unbeatable. Creating many little fights than you could lose creates more challenge, more fun. Where as a horde NOE creates a large group of unskilled players rolling base after base until even THEY get bore.

The point here is there are no tactics, there are no players trying to put "game" back into the game. So we get people subscribing, unsubscribing, taking breaks, announcing their returns so on and so on, all because they are bored out of their trees by either hording base after base, or trying to stop a horde.

Maybe it's time people try to learn how to play the game and see ALL that it really offers, instead of the same old thing.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2011, 08:25:43 PM »
see what I mean, give you an example, then you question it.  point is no matter what/how gets planned there will always be somebody in the back whining about the details.

-organize a bomber/fighter attack from two different directions.  then you are a dweeb because you killed the hangars.

-bring 20 fighters because you dont know how many will up, then you are a hording skilless dweeb.

-kill the ords so the enemy dont bomb you.  then you are an idiot who only destroys things that dont shoot back.

-bring only a few fighters with you, then you are a dork for not anticipating how many would up.

instead of just complaining about the lack of skill in the general player population.  perhaps you should start organizing missions and teach others how it was done back in the good ol' days.   like i said before, who knows, perhaps we could learn a thing or two.

semp
LOL, in those days we did the same as these days.  We flew for the least number side.  You were describing a mission that involved 2 countries attacking one with overwhelming numbers.  Apparently that was 'fun' for you.  I'd rather watch grass grow.  And yes my thought process has been the same since AW3 went to an all out win the war base capture system.   I much preferred limited base capture cause it promised fights in specific areas of the map and it was then take and hold, not take and take and take and take and take and take.....you get the idea.

All the numbers in the world could only take you so far and then you had to resort to defending and holding no matter how many you had.   Those who could, fought, and those who couldn't, went down to the VoD and vulched to get their attaboys.

Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17318
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2011, 12:59:06 AM »
LOL, in those days we did the same as these days.  We flew for the least number side.  You were describing a mission that involved 2 countries attacking one with overwhelming numbers.  Apparently that was 'fun' for you.  I'd rather watch grass grow.  And yes my thought process has been the same since AW3 went to an all out win the war base capture system.   I much preferred limited base capture cause it promised fights in specific areas of the map and it was then take and hold, not take and take and take and take and take and take.....you get the idea.

All the numbers in the world could only take you so far and then you had to resort to defending and holding no matter how many you had.   Those who could, fought, and those who couldn't, went down to the VoD and vulched to get their attaboys.



what exactly is limited base capture?

semp

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2011, 01:15:25 AM »
what exactly is limited base capture?

semp

semp

when I found airwarrior in 96 the map was set up where there were three bases that could be taken on the edge of each country.  To take one was the only way to get a foothold on another country.  So you'd have this battle in the center of the map between the three countries that went back and forth and took some effort and coordination to take over those bases,  If you did it right it called for a good defense and opened the door to hit the other airfields nearby.  At the same time the bad guys had a motivation to get you off their turf. 

So there was a real effort to get that foothold and hang on to it as you knew the battle was coming to you once you got control.  In the meantime there were bases set up that promoted combat between those bases.  C83-B83 was a constant back and forth.  c84-A84  A83-B84 all had ongoing fights between them.  They all were close enough to the capturable N bases that they could support that fight too.

And there was a spot called the Valley of Dweebs where there was an ongoing back and forth vulchfest between two fields

Then the game expanded to include base taking to the extreme and the 'win the war' crowd was born
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17674
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2011, 08:42:22 AM »
when I found airwarrior in 96 the map was set up where there were three bases that could be taken on the edge of each country.  To take one was the only way to get a foothold on another country.  So you'd have this battle in the center of the map between the three countries that went back and forth and took some effort and coordination to take over those bases,  If you did it right it called for a good defense and opened the door to hit the other airfields nearby.  At the same time the bad guys had a motivation to get you off their turf. 

So there was a real effort to get that foothold and hang on to it as you knew the battle was coming to you once you got control.  In the meantime there were bases set up that promoted combat between those bases.  C83-B83 was a constant back and forth.  c84-A84  A83-B84 all had ongoing fights between them.  They all were close enough to the capturable N bases that they could support that fight too.

And there was a spot called the Valley of Dweebs where there was an ongoing back and forth vulchfest between two fields

Then the game expanded to include base taking to the extreme and the 'win the war' crowd was born


Even when the win the war crowd was born it wasn't bad because the players STILL had that "battle it out" mentality.  Map watchers were born and some guys were very good at spotting where an attack was coming from. Sweep fighters were sent out to look for the odd mission doing an "end around" type thing sneaking in from an odd side and so on. Even when they switched to the bigger maps you could almost "know" where the fights were going to be before you logged on. Fronts didn't move all that much as everyone FOUGHT for the bases, not rolled them.

Offline matt

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1136
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2011, 09:57:22 AM »
if hi-tech makes it harder to take bases im out of this game !! :furious
make towns white flaged at 50%  :aok


            flakhapy

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17674
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2011, 12:03:05 PM »
if hi-tech makes it harder to take bases im out of this game !! :furious
make towns white flaged at 50%  :aok


            flakhapy

...and why is that? Is it that hard to hit a town that doesn't move? Is it that hard to have a half dozen guys who can shoot down more than the odd 1 or 2 they get now in a HO cap the area? Is it that hard to organize both a ground and an air assault?  You personally have almost 10 base captures, and that isn't even 4% of your squads total. It doesn't look like it's too challenging to you guys. How much fun is it to roll base after base? Is there any "thrill" left when you capture one now or is it the first thing you think of after you capture a base"where to next?".

When I have a great fight whether in a plane, gv, or grabbing a base my first thoughts are "Holy crap!!! That was close!!" "OMG !!! did you see how he flipped that plane!!", "WOW! I got that guy just as the last troop got in !!!".

If you can throw a ringer every time why play horseshoes? Do you think anyone is going to want to play against you? Aces is turning into the same thing. Hordes roll base after base, why because you really can't stop a horde the way the game is set up. The game is setup for offense. Nobody wants to sit around and fly caps and fighter sweeps to spot attacks early and give enough of a warning that you can scramble a 20 man defense to intercept. I wouldn't mind something coaded in to help out against hordes.

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2011, 12:22:31 PM »
when I found airwarrior in 96 the map was set up where there were three bases that could be taken on the edge of each country.  To take one was the only way to get a foothold on another country.  So you'd have this battle in the center of the map between the three countries that went back and forth and took some effort and coordination to take over those bases,  If you did it right it called for a good defense and opened the door to hit the other airfields nearby.  At the same time the bad guys had a motivation to get you off their turf. 

So there was a real effort to get that foothold and hang on to it as you knew the battle was coming to you once you got control.  In the meantime there were bases set up that promoted combat between those bases.  C83-B83 was a constant back and forth.  c84-A84  A83-B84 all had ongoing fights between them.  They all were close enough to the capturable N bases that they could support that fight too.

And there was a spot called the Valley of Dweebs where there was an ongoing back and forth vulchfest between two fields

Then the game expanded to include base taking to the extreme and the 'win the war' crowd was born

Sounds to me like the way it was set up is the reason it was fun, not because the humans playing were any different than the humans that play now. 

I actually have an incredibly promising strategic addition that would promote sustainable, meaningful combat in a way this game has never seen.  It will be hard for me to muster up motivation for a proposal though since I am usually ignored.  Doesn't seem to be worth the effort at this time.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17318
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2011, 12:23:02 PM »
we had about 7 or 8 of us taking a base last night, we had the white flag in town, but a single la killed our first goon.  we killed several uppers who hid in the ack, then we killed the ack and the uppers, but several guys ran out of ammo and had to rtb.  next thing you know we have 20 guys upping to face about 3 or 4 attackers and our goons were not near the base.  so we gave up and ended up furballing, that was just as fun.

fugitive wish I could join some of your missions.  i bet they would be pretty cool and very well planned with just a few attackers.

you know what you remind me of, and wish you would post a cartoon about it.  I am 46, but back when i was 7 or 8, I would listen to my uncles talk about how in the old days everything was so much better.  how the people had no idea how to do things the right way anymore, or how to plan and enjoy.  how they only lived for the day without planning for the future.  I think it's funny  :salute :bolt:.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17674
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2011, 12:52:35 PM »
Sounds to me like the way it was set up is the reason it was fun, not because the humans playing were any different than the humans that play now.  

I actually have an incredibly promising strategic addition that would promote sustainable, meaningful combat in a way this game has never seen.  It will be hard for me to muster up motivation for a proposal though since I am usually ignored.  Doesn't seem to be worth the effort at this time.


oh I think the players are much different today than they were "back then". The end game is totally different. Today it's capture the base and win the war NO MATTER HOW! As an experiment I'd like to see HTC give out nukes for the B29. The only way to get them would be for your squad to maintain, in the fighter catagory better than a 2 k/d, a 1 k/s, and a 5 k/h. This would give them 5 nukes for next month. Can you image the dilemma those squads would have? To get the nukes that would help them capture more bases faster and win the war sooner they would have to be pretty good fighter pilots and fight!   :rofl

I'd like to hear your ideas Grizz. Everyone ignore mine as well, but it's fun to bounce ideas around, and who knows who might see them and give them a twist and use them  :noid

Offline matt

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1136
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2011, 01:33:22 PM »
2 country war :bhead :furious  :bolt:

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: 2 LW arenas
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2011, 02:09:27 PM »
I'd like to hear your ideas Grizz. Everyone ignore mine as well, but it's fun to bounce ideas around, and who knows who might see them and give them a twist and use them  :noid

Well since you want to hear it, this gives me a little added motivation.  :D