Spixteen perked ?

[grizz441]

Its statistical record?  Go look at the chart that Lusche posted earlier in this thread.  Fewer people fly the HurriC than fly the 109K, and it has a comparatively lower K/D ratio.  The N1K has a lower K/D too, though more people fly it than the 109K.  The Spit VIII, Spit IX, Seafire and Spit V, all sporting the uber Hispanos, see lower usage and possess lower K/D ratios than the 109K.

I get what you're trying to say, but you can't quantify it.  The statistical record doesn't support your claim.

The 109K4(And the 38) crowd is generally more skilled than the Spit/N1k crowd, which explains the discrepancy in K/D.  The 109K4 popularity has certainly increased the past year, year and a half, but it is flown by a more advanced player which is where the statistical discrepancies lie.

Those statistics however, do not paint a clear picture, because if you took the entire K4 community, put them in Spit8's/Spit16's, and the entire Spit8/Spit16 community and put them in K4s, the stats would be something entirely different.  The Spits would have incredibly dominating statistics.  This obviously cannot be proven because God knows the K4 community does not want to fly spits and God knows the spitfire community cannot fly K4s, but any vet knows this to be accurate.  (And before The Few come in and defend the spit and their undisputed skill, there are exceptions to this glaringly obvious point I am making)

Fact of the matter is, noobs generally fly spits, 51ds, n1ks, and hurrics.   Noobs generally do not fly 109s.  That is the only metric you need to measure what the EZ planes are.

[gpwurzel]

And before The Few come in and defend the spit and their undisputed skill, there are exceptions to this glaringly obvious point I am making

I take exception to that point of view, I'm in The Few, and have no skills to talk about 

And you'd be right about most of the spit drivers struggling in the 109's I suspect.

Wurz

[Tank-Ace]

Grizz had the right of it there. The K4 also has the spud gun, the least newb-friendly gun in the game.

[68ZooM]

i flew a 262 for the first time last night,the last time i flew one was well over 6 months ago, I landed 3 kills with plenty of ammo left just no Fuel. Now was it the Plane, the Pilot or the circumstances of how the kills were achieved?  easy mode planes are only easy for the people who spend the time in them and have great overall skills in combat fighting.

[Ardy123]

I'll put it this way....

bunnies in a Spit16 easily kills bunnies in a k4.

bunnies in a ki84 easily kills bunnies in a k4

[waystin2]

Grizz had the right of it there. The K4 also has the spud gun, the least newb-friendly gun in the game.

Now we are talking about something different Tank.  Bad ballistics on the Germans part is not a quanitifier for what is EZ. 

[grizz441]

Attempted defense of EZ mode planes

It's kind of like when you are a 5 year old and are learning how to ride a bike with plastic training wheels, hot pink, and a my little pony sticker on the side.  You sure have gotten good with that thing.  You can take it off jumps and spin it out and pop some wheels and it's all great, it really is.  But at the end of the day you are still riding a pink bike with training wheels and a my little pony sticker on the side while all the big kids ride around on huffys laughing at you.  

[grizz441]

Now we are talking about something different Tank.  Bad ballistics on the Germans part is not a quanitifier for what is EZ.  

The hell it isn't.  The single most important thing in the MA is killing your enemies quickly otherwise you get swarmed.  The EZ mode crutch of hispanos allows the less skilled player to do just that, kill quickly, while the K4 pilot has to earn his shot.

[waystin2]

Insert nonsensical and typical Muffpit online banter with little or no basis in reality

Well here is the part of thread where you can put the money on the table Grizz.  Take the challenge.  Show me how much the Spit 16 adds to an already admittedly great pilots skill.  I want to learn.  You know as well as I do that the Muffpit bravado banter does'nt work on me.    Waiting....

[grizz441]

Well here is the part of thread where you can put the money on the table Grizz.  Take the challenge.  Show me how much the Spit 16 adds to an already admittedly great pilots skill.  I want to learn.  You know as well as I do that the Muffpit bravado banter does'nt work on me.    Waiting....

Your proposed experiment was ridiculous at best, utterly moronic at worst.  Propose something a little more reasonable.  How about You, and three more experten Pigs all in K4s vs me in a Spit16.  Best of 5 Wins.

[Dead Man Flying]

The 109K4(And the 38) crowd is generally more skilled than the Spit/N1k crowd, which explains the discrepancy in K/D.  The 109K4 popularity has certainly increased the past year, year and a half, but it is flown by a more advanced player which is where the statistical discrepancies.

But you said that the statistics back up your position, and they don't.    Now you're offering up a theory for why the 109K performs so well and is flown so frequently.  Is it valid?  To a degree, but I think you overstate it.  In any event, the statistics don't speak for themselves, because you just had to speak for them.

Those statistics however, do not paint a clear picture, because if you took the entire K4 community, put them in Spit8's/Spit16's, and the entire Spit8/Spit16 community and put them in K4s, the stats would be something entirely different.  The Spits would have incredibly dominating statistics.  This obviously cannot be proven because God knows the K4 community does not want to fly spits and God knows the spitfire community cannot fly K4s, but any vet knows this to be accurate.  (And before The Few come in and defend the spit and their undisputed skill, there are exceptions to this glaringly obvious point I am making)

I'm not sure I agree with that.  Do you honestly think you could have done your 100 kill sortie in a Spit?

Fact of the matter is, noobs generally fly spits, 51ds, n1ks, and hurrics.   Noobs generally do not fly 109s.  That is the only metric you need to measure what the EZ planes are.

Now you just changed your criteria for what makes something "EZ."  How do you know a lot of noobs don't fly 109Ks?  Clearly somebody's flying it a lot, and it can't all be vets.

[Debrody]

zomg   seriously
Nothing better to do than argue about whats EZ mode?
Waystin is right somewhere: if there are two planes, ""close in performance"", the one you fly a lot will be EZ mode for you against the other you never fly.
BUT: if you have a plane what rolls like a 190, turns like a spit9, has two laser guided hizookas aka has a fatal snapshot, fast like a G-14, climbs like a K-4... holy Hell, that sure isnt EZ mode for those who alredy pwns most here in a much less turny ride. Plz, think about it.
Im up for the challenge. Any spit16 hero vs me. Spit16 vs G-6 first. Then Spit16 vs spit16. Then G-6 vs spit16. Ill be on from early September. Whos in?

[68ZooM]

Grizz had the right of it there. The K4 also has the spud gun, the least newb-friendly gun in the game.

Take that "spud" gun off and see the numbers who use it drop off, any plane that carries taters is "Easy Mode" period.

[grizz441]

But you said that the statistics back up your position, and they don't.    Now you're offering up a theory for why the 109K performs so well and is flown so frequently.  Is it valid?  To a degree, but I think you overstate it.  In any event, the statistics don't speak for themselves, because you just had to speak for them.

The statistics do not speak for themselves entirely anymore.  A year ago they did, but the plane has grown significantly in popularity.  Look back at Tour 120, 121ish.  Even the Spit9 had more kills.  Perhaps because the Muppets have brought popularity to the plane and have also helped interested pilots looking to get out of their EZ modes with helpful training.

I'm not sure I agree with that.  Do you honestly think you could have done your 100 kill sortie in a Spit?

Well of course not, I don't think any prop plane can do that in any reasonable way.

Now you just changed your criteria for what makes something "EZ."  How do you know a lot of noobs don't fly 109Ks?  Clearly somebody's flying it a lot, and it can't all be vets.

Didn't change it, simply added to it.  Most people that fly the K4 have been around, it has gained quite a bit of popularity the past year.  Rarely do I kill a K4 and it was some guy I never heard of.  Most times I engage a K4 he demonstrates that he at least has a clue what is going on.  Rarely does a K4 ever try to HO me.  There is a noticeable difference between a K4 pilot's approach to ACM and dogfighting than a N1K or Spit pilot's.

[grizz441]

Take that "spud" gun off and see the numbers who use it drop off, any plane that carries taters is "Easy Mode" period.

Awesome! You and Waystin in K4s vs Me in a Spit16.  Bring two more friends also.  Best of 5.

If you guys are so confident it can be just the two of you, but something tells me you will be sure to find your best 4 pigs.