Author Topic: Spixteen perked ?  (Read 23552 times)

Offline The Jekyll

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #450 on: August 12, 2011, 02:28:26 PM »
Arguably its more fun than flying the spitfire in the same fashion because it takes a greater amount of skill to overcome the advantages many enemies will have.

Arguably fun is defined in the eyes of the individual, thus both you and I are correct.


When I make a kill, I know I've earned it, and that I've fought hard for it.


Inversely anyone who flies a spit doesn't feel the same way? Against anyone who is any good and I prevail, I earned it. Against anyone who is less experienced or skilled; well I had fun.

A gutsy pilot once challenged Chuck Yeager telling him that it was the plane that would define the fight. Chuck Yeager argued it was the pilot and his ability that defined the fight and put the gutsy pilot to the challenge. The gutsy pilot, after losing the challenge, apologized to Chuck Yeager and proclaimed "you are correct sir, and I was wrong"


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« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 02:30:09 PM by The Jekyll »
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #451 on: August 12, 2011, 02:31:11 PM »
Arguably fun is defined in the eyes of the individual, thus both you and I are correct.


Inversely anyone who flies a spit doesn't feel the same way? Against anyone who is any good and I prevail, I earned it. Against anyone who is less experienced or skilled; well I had fun.

A gutsy pilot once challenged Chuck Yeager telling him that it was the plane that would define the fight. Chuck Yeager argued it was the pilot and his ability that defined the fight and put the gutsy pilot to the challenge. The gutsy pilot, after losing the challenge, apologized to Chuck Yeager and proclaimed "you are correct sir, and I was wrong"

Going back here but again it's the plane and the pilot.  If Pilot A is marginally less skilled than Pilot B yet has a marginally better aircraft it will be a marginally close fight.  If Pilot A is much worse than Pilot B yet has a much better aircraft it will be close.  If Pilot A and Pilot B are equal and Pilot B has a better aircraft, Pilot B will have the edge.  It's not black and white at all.

Offline The Jekyll

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #452 on: August 12, 2011, 02:32:54 PM »
In the digital world I would say your correct, in the real world I would say Chuck Yeager was correct.
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #453 on: August 12, 2011, 02:35:23 PM »
In the digital world I would say your correct, in the real world I would say Chuck Yeager was correct.

In the real world Chuck was more correct.  Say in the digital world it's 50/50 Plane & Pilot.  Perhaps in the real world it was 75% Pilot 25% plane.  Regardless, plane is still in the equation.

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #454 on: August 12, 2011, 02:38:23 PM »
I'm not saying he doesn't feel he earned his kill, I'm saying I don't feel he earned the whole kill, the plane gets half the credit.

I prefer to push myself. If I'm in an spit, and kill a 190 or 109 from a possion of advantage, what did I accomplish? not much. If I'm in the 190 or 109, and kill the spit from a possition of disadvantage, then I know I really and truely earned that kill.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline The Jekyll

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #455 on: August 12, 2011, 02:39:49 PM »
Not sure I'm quite ready to accept Chuck Yeager was wrong, but I've been wrong before.  :D
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #456 on: August 12, 2011, 02:41:47 PM »
Not sure I'm quite ready to accept Chuck Yeager was wrong, but I've been wrong before.  :D

I doubt he was wrong, he was likely just making a point, which he did beautifully.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #457 on: August 12, 2011, 02:44:44 PM »
In the real world Chuck was more correct.  Say in the digital world it's 50/50 Plane & Pilot.  Perhaps in the real world it was 75% Pilot 25% plane.  Regardless, plane is still in the equation.

I think anyone who claims that the plane has no bearing is kidding himself.  Clearly it has to matter to some extent.

Here's a good old-timey thread concerning this exact issue.  Lots of names I recognize in there too.

Offline The Jekyll

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #458 on: August 12, 2011, 02:50:42 PM »
I'm not saying he doesn't feel he earned his kill, I'm saying I don't feel he earned the whole kill, the plane gets half the credit.

I prefer to push myself. If I'm in an spit, and kill a 190 or 109 from a possion of advantage, what did I accomplish? not much. If I'm in the 190 or 109, and kill the spit from a possition of disadvantage, then I know I really and truely earned that kill.

And that is where how we like to play the game comes into play. I prefer to have fun, as I define it. I prefer to push myself in whatever I fly, be it the 16, the F4, the 262, whatever. But I also like to have fun regardless. You like to have fun by flying what you like; as you should. To interject rather someone earned it or not is totally subjective and in a game, irrelevant; except to the individual. Most of us who have lived a few years, I don't think really care either way if someone does or doesn't think we've earned it.

Now to question: If your in a 109 or 190 and you come up against a spit with advantage, do you expect to lose?  If you lose it is the plane, if you win it is the pilot? Doesn't that sound a bit defeatist? Just asking.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #459 on: August 12, 2011, 02:54:36 PM »
To push one's self would require more pilot less plane?

Or do you have to look in a mirror and press firmly?
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline The Jekyll

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #460 on: August 12, 2011, 02:55:03 PM »

Now to throw a monkey wrench into the equation; how much does the setup come into play?

Wal Mart stick vs. Thrustmaster, mouse vs IR tracker, 2 button vs 5 button mouse, 17' vs 19" screen, and on and on. Can we assume that better equipment and setup can add or detract from the win/lose column?
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #461 on: August 12, 2011, 03:12:41 PM »
Now to throw a monkey wrench into the equation; how much does the setup come into play?

Wal Mart stick vs. Thrustmaster, mouse vs IR tracker, 2 button vs 5 button mouse, 17' vs 19" screen, and on and on. Can we assume that better equipment and setup can add or detract from the win/lose column?

It helps but only if you compare a bad equipment to average and above.  If your stick does not spike and provides smooth movement and has enough buttons for views, you should be OK
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Krupinski

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #462 on: August 12, 2011, 03:37:08 PM »
Now to throw a monkey wrench into the equation; how much does the setup come into play?

Wal Mart stick vs. Thrustmaster, mouse vs IR tracker, 2 button vs 5 button mouse, 17' vs 19" screen, and on and on. Can we assume that better equipment and setup can add or detract from the win/lose column?

I'd have to say not much.

My setup:




Offline Widewing

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #463 on: August 12, 2011, 03:38:00 PM »
Here's the thing everyone needs to remember... Every aircraft has set of conditions or circumstances where its performance is maximized. As you move away from that ideal set of conditions, performance degrades. It doesn't matter if we are talking about the P-40B, La-7, 109K4 or the Spit16. You cannot easily chart this. Moreover, you have to assume that pilot skills are always equal or any conclusions drawn will be faulty.

After being out of the game for about a year and a half, I felt like I want to play again. However, I didn't want to deal with the things I dealt with every day as a long-time Trainer. I wanted to enjoy myself without any expectations. After being back fore perhaps a week, events led me to join Sunbat in the DA. We were both flying shade accounts. We identified ourselves and had a laugh. I really needed a good workout, because I could see how my skills had deteriorated. Sunbat suggested we fly aircraft that covered the gamut from turn fighters, through the late-war beasts. He suggested the 190s and the K4. Even when I was flying daily, it was a rare event if I flew a 109K4. I preferred the G2. Still, I was in agreement with Sunbat that flying "uncomfortable" fighters was better for sharpening dull skills. I had a blast. It took a few duels to begin to get traction, but lose or win, it was great to be hunting for the edge again. Sunbat was generous and kind (I'm sure he'll hate for me to say that on the BBS :eek:). Now, four months later, I feel as if I'm at least back at the level I was at when I took the break. That's largely the result of having the opportunity to fight against some of this generation's best sticks. You'll never rise above the level of the competition you select, so if you want to improve, go find the best players and learn by doing.

That hasn't changed. I've been playing for about 10 years (including the break period). A new generation comes in about every two or three years. As a noob, I had to contend with the likes of Lev and Drex. They were among the best of their generation, as good as the current crew. I spent many hours dueling with Nomak, Urchin, Dedalos and dozens whose names I forget. I learned, and polished my skills. Each generation has its outstanding pilots. Some have little tricks they use in their favorite ride (but these generally only work once, if at all). The fact is that very little separates the top tier sticks, regardless of generation. It usually comes down to who makes the first error. Trust me on this, I've seen them all at one point or another.

That's one advantage of dueling... You know exactly what you are dealing with. In contrast, the MA provides for the unexpected from time to time. Last tour, I encountered a P-51 will flying a P-38. I made a lazy reverse, expecting the guy to either run or do something dumb. Well, I was more than wrong. It was Banshee5, an old dueling partner from a few years ago. He's very good 1v1, and I found myself at an immediate disadvantage. A seemingly minor snap shot resulted in a pilot wound and it was downhill from there. That was a not-so-gentle reminder not to take any enemy fighter lightly.

I think that it's important to respect every generation of player, from noobs to top tier. If for no other reason, that like gunfighters, sooner or later you'll run across someone, who on that day, was simply better.  
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #464 on: August 12, 2011, 03:40:33 PM »
...

{thread hijack}
I don't think I have ever dueled you, but I would like to. PM me sometime.
{/thread hijack}
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