Author Topic: Spixteen perked ?  (Read 23584 times)

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #495 on: August 13, 2011, 07:51:43 PM »
One thing I notice, and I don't entirely agree with, is that most people who complain about such and such aircraft being easy mode fly fast fighters and completely dismiss speed as being an easy mode attribute compared to turning.  I strongly disagree with that and rate speed equally with turning ability, and for AH purposes both below acceleration/climb ability.

A guy in an Fw190D-9 vs a guy in a B239 will both be able to make the other's task difficult or almost impossible simply by flying to the strengths of their airplane.  The B239 may turn well, but if the Fw190D-9 flies to its strength, the B239 will never get a shot on it just as the turning ability of the B239 will make the Fw190D-9's task of getting a shot difficult as well.

From my experience, if the brewster pilot is good, it often results in a stale-mate, as the 190 struggles to get an angle to place a shot, and the brewster struggles to get a shot in time (after a reversal etc..). Sometimes I have seen pilots in brewsters make amazing shots from 600+ out but that is as much about the pilots as it is about the guns.
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Offline mensa180

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #496 on: August 13, 2011, 07:57:58 PM »
Mensa's random interjection:  Of the people I've personally fought in this thread Bighorn is the best, I am pretty sure I have never one a legitimate duel against him unless he was flying at 4% his skill level so as to give me a shot.  Thus I will respect his opinion the most. 

Also, I find Grizz's diagram decent.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #497 on: August 13, 2011, 08:07:47 PM »
From my experience, if the brewster pilot is good, it often results in a stale-mate, as the 190 struggles to get an angle to place a shot, and the brewster struggles to get a shot in time (after a reversal etc..). Sometimes I have seen pilots in brewsters make amazing shots from 600+ out but that is as much about the pilots as it is about the guns.
That is my point.  The speed of the Fw190D-9 means that with only slight skill he can make pass after pass without being exposed to return fight.  Now, being of slight skill his passes will likely result in nothing, but I don't find his use of speed any more difficult than I find the B239 driver's use of turning.

Frankly, having done both, using turning, rolling and sliding to avoid being hit by the faster plane takes a lot more skill and SA than just using speed to avoid being hit by the slow plane does.

Learning to use the fast plane's attributes offensively so as to set up successful kill shots is harder than learning to use a slower, turny plane to set up kill shots on targets with less E than it has.

Defensively, speed is easier, offensively, turning is easier.  The qualifications for each of those is that you speed becomes harder defensively when a turny plane converts altitude to speed to overtake the faster plane and that using turning ability to set up offensive attacks is harder if the target does not consent to slow down.
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Offline JUGgler

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #498 on: August 13, 2011, 08:14:40 PM »
Pretty much sums you up.


HAHA! sensative!



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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #499 on: August 13, 2011, 08:30:32 PM »
One thing I notice, and I don't entirely agree with, is that most people who complain about such and such aircraft being easy mode fly fast fighters and completely dismiss speed as being an easy mode attribute compared to turning.  I strongly disagree with that and rate speed equally with turning ability, and for AH purposes both below acceleration/climb ability.

A guy in an Fw190D-9 vs a guy in a B239 will both be able to make the other's task difficult or almost impossible simply by flying to the strengths of their airplane.  The B239 may turn well, but if the Fw190D-9 flies to its strength, the B239 will never get a shot on it just as the turning ability of the B239 will make the Fw190D-9's task of getting a shot difficult as well.

And that my friend, is one of the most glaringly apparent EZ mode characteristics of the Brew.  In a D9, you would have stalled other planes out with relentless passes and by maintaining your E advantage by forcing them to keep their nose on you...but the Brew still flies on my friend since it has the stall speed of a Right Whale.
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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #500 on: August 13, 2011, 08:32:20 PM »
Mensa's random interjection:  Of the people I've personally fought in this thread Bighorn is the best, I am pretty sure I have never one a legitimate duel against him unless he was flying at 4% his skill level so as to give me a shot.  Thus I will respect his opinion the most. 

Also, I find Grizz's diagram decent.

wow....excellent feedback.

Now, is the Brew EZ mode or not?
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #501 on: August 13, 2011, 08:32:23 PM »
HAHA! sensative!

Not at all, just stating a fact. When it comes to air warfare between Finland and Soviet Union, I think I wouldn't come to hear your presentation about the subject.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #502 on: August 13, 2011, 08:36:30 PM »
And that my friend, is one of the most glaringly apparent EZ mode characteristics of the Brew.  In a D9, you would have stalled other planes out with relentless passes and by maintaining your E advantage by forcing them to keep their nose on you...but the Brew still flies on my friend since it has the stall speed of a Right Whale.

Dunno.  I suspect a Right Whale has a pretty high stall speed.  With its shape it might be a lifting body form, but I bet you need it going a couple thousand miles an hour to maintain level flight.  :p

More seriously, I am not sure as I haven't fought in or against the B239 much, but it doesn't seem like it would be hard to bleed its E out and then kill it from my test flights in it.  Sure, a skilled pilot could make better use of its evasive capability, but that involves the word "skilled" which it should not if it is "easy mode".
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #503 on: August 13, 2011, 08:38:39 PM »
wow....excellent feedback.

Now, is the Brew EZ mode or not?

In all honesty, it's become a ridiculous discussion.  In the overall scheme of things I'm glad we have it in our cartoon fighter pilot world.  I don't fly them, but I sure don't mind that other folks do.  If I'm dumb enough to try and turn with a Brewster, it's my own fault.  That applies to any number of better turning birds then my 38G.  But as I don't really die, I get to try again.  And if I learn something in the process about getting more out of my 38G, good for me.

The entire EZ-mode discussion is pointless, other then it seems to help folks feel better about their cartoon pilot skills if they don't fly a cartoon bird that in their minds is easier to get kills in.  

Who the heck cares?  Flying a cartoon Spit XVI or a K4 still isn't gonna get you laid regardless of how easy or how tough you think they are to fly :aok
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Offline mensa180

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #504 on: August 13, 2011, 08:40:17 PM »
wow....excellent feedback.

Now, is the Brew EZ mode or not?

I'm not sure exactly, I haven't really flown the plane enough to reliably comment.  I don't really care what people fly as long as they aren't timid to the point they are no longer using their plane's strengths but are instead just being cartoon 'cowardly'.  

I'm honestly not sure what separates the 38 from the 'EZ' mode section other than that it is a large target and can be cumbersome at times.  But other than that it seems to me it retains E fairly well, isn't a terrible turner, and can surely take a beating.  Also it has a fantastic weapons platform.

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #505 on: August 13, 2011, 08:43:27 PM »
In all honesty, it's become a ridiculous discussion.  In the overall scheme of things I'm glad we have it in our cartoon fighter pilot world.  I don't fly them, but I sure don't mind that other folks do.  If I'm dumb enough to try and turn with a Brewster, it's my own fault.  That applies to any number of better turning birds then my 38G.  But as I don't really die, I get to try again.  And if I learn something in the process about getting more out of my 38G, good for me.

The entire EZ-mode discussion is pointless, other then it seems to help folks feel better about their cartoon pilot skills if they don't fly a cartoon bird that in their minds is easier to get kills in.  

Who the heck cares?  Flying a cartoon Spit XVI or a K4 still isn't gonna get you laid regardless of how easy or how tough you think they are to fly :aok

Grizz's chart cares...and I am all about accuracy.  I guess JUGgler said it best...now I just have to get Grizz to come around to the fact.  Remember...we aren't talking about anything other than than its ease of flight and ease of fight.  Seems everyone wants to get into the flight model or how to defend against it....how easy is it to fly???  EZMODE OR NOT?
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #506 on: August 13, 2011, 08:50:23 PM »
When I'm in it, no cartoon airplane is EZ-mode :aok
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #507 on: August 13, 2011, 08:59:02 PM »
how easy is it to fly???  EZMODE OR NOT?
Only planes in AH that might make anything other than pure easy mode by that definition are the Bf109K-4, Spitfire Mk XIV and Seafire Mk II (I have a hell of a time landing that thing on carriers).

All the others are very easy to fly.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #508 on: August 13, 2011, 09:10:16 PM »
Oh and I think europeans are gross  :neener:



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Offline ACE

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Re: Spixteen perked ?
« Reply #509 on: August 13, 2011, 09:11:24 PM »
Its the pilot not the plane..
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