Stuka Pilot. excellent book. link included.

[TheDudeDVant]

the ju87g would be sweet! amazing how that dude survived all that! shot down 22 times! 

37mm gun?

[JUGgler]

Average German kid 1936 would prolly be a close comparison to the average American kid 1996... Only the German kid had less to do..

The average German soldier on the battlefield fought to have the right to gas Jews? I suspect not. I bet he fought for his country or at least thought he did.. He fought what his government told him was the enemy.. Kinda just like most all other soldiers throughout history.. Kinda just like what our soldiers are doing now, the last 10years, and the foreseeable future. But we are the good guys! Wait, 1942 German soldier, he thought he was the good guy.. oh wait... now im confused..   

I'm less confused!
 


JUGgler

[Citabria]

this thread needs to go to the O-Club Skuzzy

these idiots are going political and not discussing how this rudel guy did what he did in airplanes which was the origional intent of this thread, but it has been hijacked by people with political agendas.

this discussion has nothing to do with flying in AH at this point or with the interest in adding a ju87G. methods of tank busting, surviving in an obsolete airplane etc etc.

[Ardy123]

Average German kid 1936 would prolly be a close comparison to the average American kid 1996... Only the German kid had less to do..

The average German soldier on the battlefield fought to have the right to gas Jews? I suspect not. I bet he fought for his country or at least thought he did.. He fought what his government told him was the enemy.. Kinda just like most all other soldiers throughout history.. Kinda just like what our soldiers are doing now, the last 10years, and the foreseeable future. But we are the good guys! Wait, 1942 German soldier, he thought he was the good guy.. oh wait... now im confused..   

I bet the avg German solder fought because if he didn't he would get killed.

number of German solders killed by German authorities during ww2: ~30,000
number of US solders killed by US authorities during ww2: 1

That being said, the point others are trying to make is that Rudel wasn't the avg German solder in any respect, neither in skill nor drive.

Was he a skilled pilot, YES.
Was he a despicable Nazi, YES.

I think that sums it up, you are all correct, but you all love to fight... hmmmm

[JUGgler]

this thread needs to go to the O-Club Skuzzy

these idiots are going political and not discussing how this rudel guy did what he did in airplanes which was the origional intent of this thread, but it has been hijacked by people with political agendas.

this discussion has nothing to do with flying in AH at this point or with the interest in adding a ju87G. methods of tank busting, surviving in an obsolete airplane etc etc.

+1 


JUGgler

[killnu]

I'm not big on 'lessons' that involved people dying.  There is NOTHING gained from that.  We tend to try and make it noble as there is nothing else to do.

I disagree with that statement.  Revolutionary War and Civil War come to mind in less than 5 seconds.  There was plenty gained from both of those...and both required much bloodshed.  I think we all prefer to not have death involved in anything we do...but there are times that it has been required.

[Shane]

I'm going to reply apolitically to the political.

Wars... are... always... about... resources. Period.

Politics, religion, etc are mere "excuses."

As to Rudel. I've only vaguely been aware of him being a stuka ace and nazi. I did read the "book" - thx fester.
I'll give him his single-minded dedication. I do wonder how he may have turned out if he served on the West Front, as opposed to the Eastern, which in his eyes seemed to be the enemy moreso than the jews per se - the "facist" vs "commies" aspect of the nazi party. But then, since I haven't delved too much into him, or any aces for that matter, so if he was vocally anti-semite I'd look at him lesser than I already do. That's the *man.*

As an insane person and pilot, no one can dispute his single-minded dedication to flying and shooting up @#!%

[Slash27]

I'm not big on 'lessons' that involved people dying.  There is NOTHING gained from that. 

Not true in my line of work and many others. Maybe that's not in the context of what your point is.

[Guppy35]

I disagree with that statement.  Revolutionary War and Civil War come to mind in less than 5 seconds.  There was plenty gained from both of those...and both required much bloodshed.  I think we all prefer to not have death involved in anything we do...but there are times that it has been required.

Take it in the context of my entire comment Josh.  Sadly we end up in times where that kind of sacrifice and bloodshed becomes inevitable because a supposed 'civilized' mankind can't work out things without it.  My comment was also in response to JUG suggesting Hitler's rise was a 'great' event in terms of the outcome.  Who knows what might have come out of the minds and efforts of any of those millions who never got a chance thanks to that event?  I can't ever seem to get past the faces and names of the individuals that have to pay the price

[killnu]

Kinda looked at the context after Slashs post.  Like I said in mine...I gave it 5 seconds of thought at the time.
~S~

[33Vortex]

When you come to realize that all major wars since the Napoleonic wars have been financed by the same group of banks, it is of less interest to discuss these issues. Armed conflict has become a charade, nothing drive nations in debt like  war. Sovereign nations are brought to their knees and become subservient to banks. These multi-national corporations have no loyalty and to them it is of lesser importance who win (some, not all) these wars. The Federal Reserve is a private entity, so is the Bank of England. The list goes on and on. Guess who own the new bank of Libya? Go figure...

[grizz441]

Take it in the context of my entire comment Josh.  Sadly we end up in times where that kind of sacrifice and bloodshed becomes inevitable because a supposed 'civilized' mankind can't work out things without it.  My comment was also in response to JUG suggesting Hitler's rise was a 'great' event in terms of the outcome.  Who knows what might have come out of the minds and efforts of any of those millions who never got a chance thanks to that event?  I can't ever seem to get past the faces and names of the individuals that have to pay the price

Great simply means something of large magnitude.  It does not have to be a good thing, although "greatness" is usually associated with things of good nature.

[oboe]

When you come to realize that all major wars since the Napoleonic wars have been financed by the same group of banks, it is of less interest to discuss these issues. Armed conflict has become a charade, nothing drive nations in debt like  war. Sovereign nations are brought to their knees and become subservient to banks. These multi-national corporations have no loyalty and to them it is of lesser importance who win (some, not all) these wars. The Federal Reserve is a private entity, so is the Bank of England. The list goes on and on. Guess who own the new bank of Libya? Go figure...

Found this after a brief search - does it fit with your theory Vortex?

One seldom mentioned fact by western politicians and media pundits: the Central Bank of Libya is 100% State Owned. The world’s globalist financiers and market manipulators do not like it  and would continue to their on-going effort to dethrone Muammar Muhammad al-Gaddafi, bringing an end to Libya as independent nation.
 
Currently, the Libyan government creates its own money, the  Libyan Dinar,  through the facilities of its own central bank. Few can argue that Libya is a sovereign nation with its own great resources, able to sustain its own economic destiny. One major problem for globalist banking cartels is that in order to do business with Libya, they must go through the Libyan Central Bank and its national currency, a place where they have absolutely zero dominion or power-broking ability.  Hence, taking down the Central Bank of Libya (CBL) may not appear in the speeches of Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy but this is certainly at the top of the globalist agenda for absorbing Libya into its hive of compliant nations.
 
When the smoke eventually clears from all the cruise missiles and cluster bombs, you will see the Allied reformers move in to reform Libya’s monetary system, pumping it full of worthless dollars, priming it for a series of chaotic inflationary cycles.

[33Vortex]

It's not a theory, but I guess that depends on what kind of information you have access to. Much is in plain sight on the web if you can dig up the relevant pieces and are able to comprehend the implications. But be careful what info you deem credible. I decline further comment, speculate as much as you want. I'm not here to educate or inform.

[oboe]

I'm interested in learning more.  PM me a credible link, if you like.