Author Topic: A different system for base capture.  (Read 3255 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5298
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2011, 06:20:45 PM »
Juggler, you are correct, but the second half of it is either hording is increased, or succesfull captures become excedingly rare.

1) attackers horde to capture base, defenders easily 'retake' the base, because the attackers didn't plan on guarding their new base

2) attackers horde is even larger, to protect their new base, defenders let it go

3) attackers horde is even larger, defenders counter with their own horde



With your system, we could see several things happen, not nessicarilly all. Which ones we see, if we see them, and how severe they are would depend on how the group affected reacts to the preasure put on their style of play.

1) GV's nearly impossible to use in a counter-strike, attackers have planned for this, and some of their defense fighters are heavy and specificly tasked with blunting a GV counter-attack. GV camping increases to nearly 100% of all GV usage, fights become stagnant and GV use declines.

2) Smaller, more open, and flexible fights are even more rare than with our current system, as you need a larger group to defend. Options further limited, hording is increased by lack of choice.

3) CV's are valued much higher, as defending a captured port is much more difficult (due to their usual proximity to enemy bases vs that of friendly bases), hiding of captured CV's skyrockets.

4) war wins are much more difficult, as effective defense with just a small group is much more difficult. When you attack one side, the other side jumps you and takes advantage of your inability to counter-attack or even defend effectivly.

5) ability to build up momentum in an advance is impossible. To simultaneously mount a strong defense AND maintain the attack, you  must strip one of your fronts bare, leaving it vulnerable.




Again, I think instead of trying to slap a bandage on the abscess and accomodating our capture-system to the horde, we should instead try to find ways to reduce hording (such as making captures by small groups easier). The option of hording still exists for those that want to, but its no longer encouraged. All options are equally effective, and choice without preasure of results is given to the players.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline JUGgler

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2011, 06:28:40 PM »
My question is, what incentive do the 'retakers' have to attempt to retake a base versus hording another, undefended base elsewhere?

Wiley.

What incentive do the current defenders have now for trying to defend a base suffering vulch after vulch after vulch?


You gonna tell me that squads like the pigs, rejects, jokers jokers etc wouldn't see a base being attacked and learn to specialize in the counter attack? I think many would revel in this new way to "make a difference"!  IMHO


My idea kind of incorporates the desire for some to "fight the good fight" and fight for a recapture of what they are about to lose, and to defend what they might gain  :aok


IMHO

JUGgler
Army of Muppets

Offline Tank-Ace

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5298
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2011, 06:41:24 PM »
That has nothing to do with most of the points I've raised, and is completly irrlevent to the lack of options.

If we make it easier for small man raids to capture a base, said squads could easily specialize in simultaneous capture.


Just because there's more options and ways to fight with/against the horde doesn't mean the lack of other options isn't a problem.

Thats like the government deciding where you will live, but letting you pick your house from a couple of options. Yeah, you get to pick the house... sorta.... but that doesn't mean you should be pleased you're allowed to do what should be yours by basic rights.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline JUGgler

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2011, 06:51:30 PM »
Juggler, you are correct, but the second half of it is either hording is increased, or succesfull captures become excedingly rare.

1) attackers horde to capture base, defenders easily 'retake' the base, because the attackers didn't plan on guarding their new base

2) attackers horde is even larger, to protect their new base, defenders let it go

3) attackers horde is even larger, defenders counter with their own horde



#1- this would be the consiquence of not guarding or defending their target
#2- again a consiquence of the defenders not defending
#3- Massive battle spread over a large area  :O

I see no problems here!



With your system, we could see several things happen, not nessicarilly all. Which ones we see, if we see them, and how severe they are would depend on how the group affected reacts to the preasure put on their style of play.

1) GV's nearly impossible to use in a counter-strike, attackers have planned for this, and some of their defense fighters are heavy and specificly tasked with blunting a GV counter-attack. GV camping increases to nearly 100% of all GV usage, fights become stagnant and GV use declines.

2) Smaller, more open, and flexible fights are even more rare than with our current system, as you need a larger group to defend. Options further limited, hording is increased by lack of choice.

3) CV's are valued much higher, as defending a captured port is much more difficult (due to their usual proximity to enemy bases vs that of friendly bases), hiding of captured CV's skyrockets.

4) war wins are much more difficult, as effective defense with just a small group is much more difficult. When you attack one side, the other side jumps you and takes advantage of your inability to counter-attack or even defend effectivly.

5) ability to build up momentum in an advance is impossible. To simultaneously mount a strong defense AND maintain the attack, you  must strip one of your fronts bare, leaving it vulnerable.
[/quote]

#1- this would show good planning by the mission leader, tI bet the counter attackers would bring jabos also  :aok
#2- I bet 3 muppets in jets could stop a counter attack with no GVs present. 3 enemies in jets could keep muppets busy for goons to get past!  :aok
#3- The timetable would allow time for close CVs to bring their weight to bear in an original attack, counter attack or BOTH  :aok Keep one eye out to sea, there are bad guys out there :aok I think it would make "creative use of CVs" more frequent! The CV hiding issue can be fixed in other ways!
#4- why can't the country defend? why can't it counter attack? You may be out #d but I bet not as much as you are now :aok
#5- This is just speculation, there is no-one "IN CHARGE" to strip a front! evreyone still has choice and I would argue more choice with my idea! Also I would apply #2 to this also  :aok



Again, I think instead of trying to slap a bandage on the abscess and accomodating our capture-system to the horde, we should instead try to find ways to reduce hording (such as making captures by small groups easier). The option of hording still exists for those that want to, but its no longer encouraged. All options are equally effective, and choice without preasure of results is given to the players.
[/quote]


I don't know how many more times I need to say that I AGREE WITH EASIER CAPTURES!  Raise the radar alt to 200' and reduce the % of buildings destroyed requirement!

I think that was the 4th time I said that!




JUGgler
Army of Muppets

Offline JUGgler

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2011, 06:54:08 PM »
That has nothing to do with most of the points I've raised, and is completly irrlevent to the lack of options.

If we make it easier for small man raids to capture a base, said squads could easily specialize in simultaneous capture.


Just because there's more options and ways to fight with/against the horde doesn't mean the lack of other options isn't a problem.

Thats like the government deciding where you will live, but letting you pick your house from a couple of options. Yeah, you get to pick the house... sorta.... but that doesn't mean you should be pleased you're allowed to do what should be yours by basic rights.

I was answering wiley  :aok



JUGgler
Army of Muppets

Offline Tank-Ace

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5298
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2011, 08:46:12 PM »
1) Results in a stagnating fight as attackers cannot take the base but stubbornly continue to attack, which is just not fun. Even if the attackers maintain air superiority, the defenders are usually able to maintain air denial so goons are unable to bring troops, and GV-borne troops are killed before entering maproom.

2) Same results as in the MA, the horde is just even larger, and the fight is even more one-sided. Still bad, as its only combat if you view it in terms of how the map is rearranged.

3) VERY rare, usually its just a massive battle spread out over the few K's of airspace where the two hordes intercept.


#1: Still bad as it could result in near-total loss of an entire way of playing
#2: I think you answered my first point twice
#3: CV's are easily sunk, and the usual close proximity of the defenders to the port in question means attackers usually can't cover the 250-50 miles before the base is retaken. Fixing the CV thing appears low on HTC's priority list. Even bugs in the terrain making CV's invincible seem ignored.
#4: Because, if you want to hold the ground on both fronts, you probably lack the strength to capture more bases. No new bases = no % increase. No % increase = no map win. no map win = boring.
#5: Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. 2 fights on one front or even just 1 BIG fight seems to result in the other front getting punched in the face and rolled back. Also completely irrelevant to #2.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17421
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2011, 09:06:46 PM »
No one would EEEEVERRRR hide in or near the town ready to release there troops.

HiTech

i agree with chili boss, we had a guy bring troops the other day to 3 different bases.  we ended up not clearing up the town so he got killed after waiting for at least 1/2 an hour to drop troops.  he also called us a bad word every time saying he wouldnt do it again.  the 4th time he took the town on another base   :rock.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Nathan60

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4573
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2011, 02:25:17 AM »
No one would EEEEVERRRR hide in or near the town ready to release there troops.

HiTech

Hey buddy I don't know  who you are but  how's about helping  with  the process and not being a troll.  :uhoh
HamHawk
Wing III-- Pigs on The Wing
FSO--JG54
CHUGGA-CHUGGA, CHOO-CHOO
Pigs go wing deep

Offline Nathan60

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4573
Re: A different system for base capture.
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2011, 02:31:42 AM »
Seriously tho  a little input from the top would help correlate, all the ideas floating around out there.
HamHawk
Wing III-- Pigs on The Wing
FSO--JG54
CHUGGA-CHUGGA, CHOO-CHOO
Pigs go wing deep