Havent requested this in ALONG time...

[Ack-Ack]

As ive stated there is a report of a rescue mission undertaken by this aircraft to rescue a downed 190 pilot behind enemy lines in 1945.  Does this not count as seeing combat?

It never happened.  There is only record of one rescue mission undertaken by a Fa 223 and that was the rescue of 17 stranded people during a winter snowstorm that resulted in the loss of the Fa 223, it never was used in the rescue of downed airmen.  You are confusing it with the Sikorsky R-4 that was used by the 1st Air Commandos of the USAAF in the CBI that was used to rescue downed airmen and wounded behind Japanese lines in Burma and China.

ack-ack

[fullmetalbullet]

any other mission history of the R-4? i never heard of the US using helo's in WW2 i would love to see it added.

[Tyrannis]

It never happened.  There is only record of one rescue mission undertaken by a Fa 223 and that was the rescue of 17 stranded people during a winter snowstorm that resulted in the loss of the Fa 223, it never was used in the rescue of downed airmen.  You are confusing it with the Sikorsky R-4 that was used by the 1st Air Commandos of the USAAF in the CBI that was used to rescue downed airmen and wounded behind Japanese lines in Burma and China.

ack-ack

Seven helicopters were built at Laupheim, before this factory got bombed to oblivion too. Except for the windtunnel, the whole complex was leveled. Two of these seven helicopters were used for manoeuvres in the Alps near Innsbruck. V14 and V16 were used to supply mountain troops. The craft flew 83 missions in September 1944, on 29 days out of the 30. The one day without flights had fog so thick the pilot couldn't see the helicopter's rotor tips. During these missions, the Drache proved its ability to carry supplies to places that are hard to reach. In seven minutes, it carried goods to a height of 6500 feet, while 20 men would have to climb a day and a half on foot to do the same. It even succeeded in dropping off a howitser and its ammo on a place that couldn't be reached in any other way. The howitser had to be winched down as there was no place to land.

The one Fa 223 that was built at Tempelhof was under command of the Luftwaffe. A Führerbefehl dating Februari 25th 1945 ordered it to move to Danzig the next morning. Avoiding storms, American troops, allied bombings and searching for fuel caused it to arrive at the suburbs of Danzig no sooner than March 5. There, its crew heard that the Red Army was about to capture Danzig itself and so it was impossible to go there. While awaiting further orders, the crew heard about a downed Me 109 pilot that was caught by a blizzard. Lieutenant Gerstenhauer took the Fa 223 and went to search for the pilot. He found him, picked him up and returned to Danzig, only to find it captured by the Russians. So, the crew decided to find a safer haven. They still had the problem of needing to find fuel. When they found another fuel stock, they loaded their bird up, grabbed a barrel of fuel and a handpump and took off again. They flew over the Russian troops, to a German base in Werder. There, they rested and joined Transportstaffel 40 at Ainring. They were captured by the Americans.

http://users.telenet.be/bert.dujardin/Pages/model_Focke_Achgelis_223.html

May not be "combat" missions, but it did partake in missions supporting the German War effort, And here again is the report of a Drache being used to rescue a downed pilot, but this one's saying it was a 109 pilot, not a Fw190.

[lyric1]

Well all you have got to do now if all that info is correct is to get HTC to do it.

[Ack-Ack]

Seven helicopters were built at Laupheim, before this factory got bombed to oblivion too. Except for the windtunnel, the whole complex was leveled. Two of these seven helicopters were used for manoeuvres in the Alps near Innsbruck. V14 and V16 were used to supply mountain troops. The craft flew 83 missions in September 1944, on 29 days out of the 30. The one day without flights had fog so thick the pilot couldn't see the helicopter's rotor tips. During these missions, the Drache proved its ability to carry supplies to places that are hard to reach. In seven minutes, it carried goods to a height of 6500 feet, while 20 men would have to climb a day and a half on foot to do the same. It even succeeded in dropping off a howitser and its ammo on a place that couldn't be reached in any other way. The howitser had to be winched down as there was no place to land.

The one Fa 223 that was built at Tempelhof was under command of the Luftwaffe. A Führerbefehl dating Februari 25th 1945 ordered it to move to Danzig the next morning. Avoiding storms, American troops, allied bombings and searching for fuel caused it to arrive at the suburbs of Danzig no sooner than March 5. There, its crew heard that the Red Army was about to capture Danzig itself and so it was impossible to go there. While awaiting further orders, the crew heard about a downed Me 109 pilot that was caught by a blizzard. Lieutenant Gerstenhauer took the Fa 223 and went to search for the pilot. He found him, picked him up and returned to Danzig, only to find it captured by the Russians. So, the crew decided to find a safer haven. They still had the problem of needing to find fuel. When they found another fuel stock, they loaded their bird up, grabbed a barrel of fuel and a handpump and took off again. They flew over the Russian troops, to a German base in Werder. There, they rested and joined Transportstaffel 40 at Ainring. They were captured by the Americans.

http://users.telenet.be/bert.dujardin/Pages/model_Focke_Achgelis_223.html

May not be "combat" missions, but it did partake in missions supporting the German War effort, And here again is the report of a Drache being used to rescue a downed pilot, but this one's saying it was a 109 pilot, not a Fw190.

Again, it never happened.  Fa 223 V14 never flew behind enemy lines and picked up a downed German pilot.  During their mission to Danzig, V14 stopped outside of the city (Stolp) and at that time, they were asked to ferry a badly burned pilot that had been rescued from his crashed plane by German troops.   After the sortie, the Fa 223 left Stolp ahead of the approaching Soviets to continue their mission to Danzig only too see the vanguard of the Soviet forces inside of the city, which then V14 continued on and finally reaching Werder on March 11, 1945.  The original mission to Danzig was on "Special orders from the Führer" to pick up high ranking Nazi party members in Danzig, which it was never able to complete as the city fell shortly before their arrival to Danzig.

The only instances of a helicopter being used to rescue downed airmen or wounded soldiers from the battlefield was the R-4 in the CBI.

As ive stated there is a report of a rescue mission undertaken by this aircraft to rescue a downed 190 pilot behind enemy lines in 1945.  Does this not count as seeing combat?

therefore:

-was a part of a Squadren.
-Saw combat.
-More then 1 produced.


Meet's the requirments to be added.

therefore:
- Must see service in squadron strength.  3 aircraft doesn't count as "squadron strength"
- Saw combat (didn't see combat)
- Only 7 were completed before the manufacturing plants were destroyed and only 5 managed to see any sort of operational service

No matter how much you want this useless aircraft in AH, it does not meet any of the requirements needed to be added to AH.

ack-ack

[Tyrannis]

Again, it never happened.  Fa 223 V14 never flew behind enemy lines and picked up a downed German pilot.  During their mission to Danzig, V14 stopped outside of the city (Stolp) and at that time, they were asked to ferry a badly burned pilot that had been rescued from his crashed plane by German troops.   After the sortie, the Fa 223 left Stolp ahead of the approaching Soviets to continue their mission to Danzig only too see the vanguard of the Soviet forces inside of the city, which then V14 continued on and finally reaching Werder on March 11, 1945.  The original mission to Danzig was on "Special orders from the Führer" to pick up high ranking Nazi party members in Danzig, which it was never able to complete as the city fell shortly before their arrival to Danzig.

The only instances of a helicopter being used to rescue downed airmen or wounded soldiers from the battlefield was the R-4 in the CBI.

Im sorry Ack but  do you have any link or evidence to what YOUR saying that it never happened?


Im not trying to get into an intelligence argument with you, Its just that your saying it never happened, yet ive found 2 dif versions of a rescue taking place that sound very similer.

the First:
a Drache is sent behind Enemy lines to rescue a downed 190 pilot in april 1945.

the second:
A drache goes to the rescue of a downed 109 pilot out of unofficial orders. After rescuing said pilot, they fly over enemy lines back to another Nazi airbase due to their previous one being overrun.

Both stories have simularities to them. Both went to rescue a down pilot, both in a Drache, Both flew over enemy lines, Both took place in 1945, and the 2's months are back to back.( story 1:april. Story 2: March)

Personally, i think there WAS a rescue mission that took place, But it wasent an ordered rescue. More of the Drache pilot hearing about a downed pilot then going after him, like the second story says.

But because it was an Unofficial order, And the event took place due to the Pilots own wish to rescue the downed pilot, Instead of commands wish, Would it show up in the Draches official logs/documents?

I mean, From the Draches story, It sounds like they were on the run from the red army, And the bases they were landing at were on a constant threat of being overun. Maybe Order had fallen apart in those bases to the point where they had stoped documenting ever flight and activity the aircraft took place?  So the only souce to go by is the personal pilot and/or witnesses testimony as to if it actually happened.

Just a thought.