P51 crashes at Reno Air Races

[Masherbrum]

  Jimmy

[saggs]

<edit> can also see some kind of smoke coming from the radiator outlet.

That plane does not have a radiator inlet (or outlet).  It was removed, that is most likely not smoke but steam from the boil-off cooling system, and it is perfectly normal.  

I just read through some of the comments on a news site regarding this, and a local crash on Thursday.     The general public's, and media's ignorance when it comes to aviation never ceased to amaze me.   I don't blame people so much as the media who always fail to seek any kind of understanding in their stories.  The one that's coming up a lot is Jimmy's age (74) which gets reported and commented on like he was nearly in a wheelchair, while failing to mention that he had to pass a class 3 medical to fly just the same as a 17 yr old.  I bet that 74 yr old was in better shape then some men half his age.  And hardly anyone, no matter the age, is going to be able to ride out a sudden pitch up and deceleration of 10 Gs without G-LOC.

In the local crash which was an RV-6 they keep reporting it was experimental (with raised eyebrows and added voice inflection) without ever explaining what that means.  So that in many folks mind the word "experimental" conjures images of some crazy, unproven, unsafe design, and the media does nothing to help people understand what that really means.

[Raptor05121]

Pictures surfacing that the trim tab broke off

[HB555]

Pictures surfacing that the trim tab broke off

Missing trim tab picture was online 1 hour after the crash, Mr. Raptor05, as were a number of darn good video's taken from different locations, so, by knowing the area, I can tell from about the angle they were shot.
Yes, the "smoke" seen from the bottom of the plane is indeed steam from the cooling system, which had a heat exchanger installed, rather than a radiator.
Also heard that Disney/Pixar had many camera's going, filming for an upcoming film, so will look forward to seeing what they got, after NTSB is through with them....maybe.

[Lepape2]

That plane does not have a radiator inlet (or outlet).  It was removed, that is most likely not smoke but steam from the boil-off cooling system, and it is perfectly normal.  

I just read through some of the comments on a news site regarding this, and a local crash on Thursday.     The general public's, and media's ignorance when it comes to aviation never ceased to amaze me.   I don't blame people so much as the media who always fail to seek any kind of understanding in their stories.  The one that's coming up a lot is Jimmy's age (74) which gets reported and commented on like he was nearly in a wheelchair, while failing to mention that he had to pass a class 3 medical to fly just the same as a 17 yr old.  I bet that 74 yr old was in better shape then some men half his age.  And hardly anyone, no matter the age, is going to be able to ride out a sudden pitch up and deceleration of 10 Gs without G-LOC.

In the local crash which was an RV-6 they keep reporting it was experimental (with raised eyebrows and added voice inflection) without ever explaining what that means.  So that in many folks mind the word "experimental" conjures images of some crazy, unproven, unsafe design, and the media does nothing to help people understand what that really means.

Ignorance is bliss nowadays, well said.

[Infidelz]

Noticed that the tail gear was extended moments before the crash. Wonder how bad the malfunction was? Thought this would be retracted in flight.

INFIDELZ

[HB555]

Noticed that the tail gear was extended moments before the crash. Wonder how bad the malfunction was? Thought this would be retracted in flight.

INFIDELZ

Some of the unlimited P-51's do not have the retractable rear wheel. Although in this case, I believe he did have it, as most of the inflight pictures I have seen of NX79111 do not show the wheel. G Force pulled it out?
Awating the NTSB report for factual, as opposed to best guess, information.

[hotard]

Tail wheel came out (no doubt) as a result of g-load causing uplock failure. Had the tail wheel not retracted after take-off, he would have aborted before the race started. Know of no unlimited warbird racer with a fixed tail wheel.

[xNOVAx]

Nova is ok

Thanks for keeping peeps updated Scotch..

Here's how I saw it..

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,320371.msg4175942.html#msg4175942

[Traveler]

I just read through some of the comments on a news site regarding this, and a local crash on Thursday.     The general public's, and media's ignorance when it comes to aviation never ceased to amaze me.   I don't blame people so much as the media who always fail to seek any kind of understanding in their stories.  The one that's coming up a lot is Jimmy's age (74) which gets reported and commented on like he was nearly in a wheelchair, while failing to mention that he had to pass a class 3 medical to fly just the same as a 17 yr old.  I bet that 74 yr old was in better shape then some men half his age.  And hardly anyone, no matter the age, is going to be able to ride out a sudden pitch up and deceleration of 10 Gs without G-LOC.

Not sure why you are  amazed by the public’s lack of aviation knowledge.  The public uses aviation for transportation and care only when they feel unsafe or are told that they are unsafe.  There is no knowledge test to purchase a airline ticket.

Your faith in the aviation medical honor system is misplaced.  I’ve been active in aviation and aviation flight instruction for 30 years now.  The 3rd class medical is based on the applicant telling the medical examiner what’s wrong with him.  Unless the pilot has a chronic condition that the examiner can detect with a simple medical exam, they issue the 3rd class.   The word among pilots is never admit to anything. 

The medical examiner will determine exactly  what medications the pilot was actually taking, if any, and whether the pilot should have surrendered his 3rd class. 

My personal feeling is that the aircraft failed and not the pilot.  But my fear is that the medical evidence is going to  show something else and muddy the waters. 

I don’t know to many 74 year olds that don’t take at least one medication that would have required them to submit for a class 2 or even a Class 1.   

I’m always suspect of an aging pilot flying on a  3rd class medical when they come to me for a Bi-annual flight review.   I know the list of meds I’m taking requires me to pass a Class 2 ever 12 months not 24 months and my medical examine included a nuclear stress test and complete blood work up.    If I hadn’t been honest think of all the money I’d save.  A flight instructor only needs a 3rd class. 
   

[SectorNine50]

I keep watching the video, and cannot for the life of me figure out what happened.

Has there been any conclusive news?

Would flutter be caused by a broken trim tab, or cause a broken trim tab?  Furthermore, what causes flutter anyway?

[icepac]

The trim tab was seen "flagging" before it departed which could have been exerted substantial force to the elevator.

[BERN1]

the way this laymen takes it the plane was trimmed for 450 plus.{lucky for us we have combat trim.}
that down trim would be halved as soon as the trim tab broke,pushing the plane into a noseup configuration so suddenly that "Jimmy" was G locked.
the erattic roll and subsequent crash would be contributed to the plane flying on it's own. this happened a few years back but that pilot was lucky enough that his plane did not roll inverted and crash.he was able to overcome the G lock and land VOODOO.the problem being people go to these events and expect to be perfectly safe,that is impossible. not to mention the Media that actually loves these kind of tragedies because now they have something to show us laymen,then they hype it and keep it going for a few days.sad

[Rich52]

I think the days of air racing are over. At least with an audience present. Reno was the last one anyways wasnt it? I cant see the event surviving the lawsuites.

Dang shame. All around a dang shame.

[mtnman]

I keep watching the video, and cannot for the life of me figure out what happened.

Has there been any conclusive news?

Would flutter be caused by a broken trim tab, or cause a broken trim tab?  Furthermore, what causes flutter anyway?

Might be easiest to just steer you to the info.  I haven't read all of this, but skimming through it it looks like the explanation I've always gone with.

http://www.cs.wright.edu/~jslater/SDTCOutreachWebsite/aerodynamic_flutter_banner.pdf

I've experienced flutter with two of my RC airplanes.  The first one I was doing dives to build speed and timing myself over a marked path trying to calculate speed.  On my "biggest and bestest" dive, the instant i touched the stick to begin pulling out I heard a very brief (milliseconds?) "buzz" followed by a sound like a shotgun blast as my wing turned itself into pieces the size of golf balls and baseballs.  From what I saw I believe it was aileron flutter. 

The second time I experienced it, it was with an elevator, and although I basically lost effectiveness I was able to slow down by cutting throttle, regain control as the flutter stopped, and was able to land.

In RC, you'll be likely to see it if you have "gappy" hinges between the wing and the control surface where air can pass through.  I like to tape over my hinge gaps now.  Also, if there's slop in your pushrods or where the clevis meets the control horn.  If you can wiggle the surface up/down without moving the pushrod, or while moving the pushrod but not the servo, you have a candidate for flutter.