FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE

[Babalonian]

having talked with a ww2 vet that used to be in our r/c club(he had flown 47's, then 51's), that had the opportunity to fly a couple different versions of the 109, and the 190 after the war.......right from his mouth........the 190's he flew were every bit the match for anything we had in the sky. he also said that he was thankful that there weren't better pilots still flying for the luftwaffe by the time they started using the later models.

I would give my right leg to pick at that man's brain for an afternoon if not days.  Very cool, but he also must of seen a _vast_ variety of variants and models then.


And I haven't said our A-8 is "overweight" for a very long time now, it is accuratley modeled to well-within acceptable limits to one of the heaviest variants of A-8s produced.  

But, wouldn't it be be really cool if we got a lighter fighter-intercept variant, since there are so many calls for a lighter one?


Oh, and yeah, not to be rude to the rest of you guys here, thanks:

[Ack-Ack]

ok akak you da man, your statements are nonsense again

The germans had the best planes in '41-42

Well, as I pointed out the Spitfire and later marks were equal to and in some marks, surpassed German planes in performance.  By every account, the Spitfire M k I was the equal to the Bf 109F and exemplified during the Battle of Britain.  When the FW 190A made it's debut, true it was superior to both the Mark I and Mark II Spitfire but that was largely eroded when the V mark was introduced which again leveled out the playing field.

and in '44-45

Which planes?  The Bf 109 series was largely obsolete as a fighter by 1944 but Germany was forced to keep it alive by continuously upgrading it but it was just a shell of its former self.  The FW 190?  Nope, in the same boat by the end of the war and there were many Allied planes that were superior in performance by war's end.  The Me 262?  Again, while it was a technological leap from propeller driven aircraft to jet powered aircraft, it wasn't the super duper uber weapon some think it to be.  The Ta 154?  Don't make me laugh, I already posted why that plane was a bust and hardly any proof of German late war plane superiority.

while they had numbers in the mid-war, the lack of the mass-production and new pilots made the uber late war rides near useless

Oh, it was far more than simple "lack of the mass-production and new pilots" that crippled the Luftwaffe by war's end.  How about the near utter destruction of the Luftwaffe by the Allies, that was the primary reason.

hmm   Hartmann scored his kills on the eastern front    same with Nowi   Krupinsky    etc etc   of course they had a harder job since the russians had three times more aircraft then them...  come on. Still: la5=g15  la7=k4

You seem to neglect that the majority of the planes encountered at the beginning of the war on the Eastern Front where obsolete planes like the I-16, I-15 or poor performing aircraft like the LaGG-1.  On top of that, it was a poorly trained and led air force, unlike the Luftwaffe.  It wasn't until around mid-1943 did the Soviets finally achieve parity with the Luftwaffe in both equipment and personnel.

Youre only a little bit arrogant dude. Plazus said something silly then you grab an extract from my answer and make an even sillyer statement. Would be nice if you could think it through before you make a post like that one.

It would be nice if you could back up what you post instead of just posting Luftwhiner tripe.

ack-ack

[Debrody]

sigh   
-the 190 never met mk1 spits. It was clearly superior to the mk5s, and the mk9 in 42 summer was the breakthrough for the brits.
-in the BoB the poor leadership decided the battle, not the planes. The spit1 was superior to the 109E in an 1v1, but the Emil had cannons whats a big advantage in the many vs many.
-the 109F was a great improvement over the E in every aspect: speed, climb, roll, turn, aim-ability. It wasnt clearly superior to the spit5, but if you really wanna, i can call it a draw: the F was just as faster, as much the spit5 could turn better. The spit9 is very close to the 109F, a lil bit superior to it.
-1944: ponyd vs 109k4. who wins? wanna try in the da?   : )   ok the pony is better in the many vs many situations.
-the 262 had 2 weaknesses: 1: Adolf Hitlers dumb arse  2: poor climbrate at high alt

Being a luftwhiner arse, could you tell me what im whining about? RAF-wheenie  : )
Your statements are nonsense, man. Your arrogance knows no boarders. Plz look into the mirror, think about what you seen, then post your answer.

[RTHolmes]

MY GOD, THE A8 IS OVER WEGIHT BY 1000 LBS?!?! OH REALLY? I PRESSED THIS ISSUE A LONG TIME AGO LIKE, FIVE MONTHS AND NOBODY SAID ANYTHING FOR LIKOH E FOUR MONTHS, NOW IT'S OVER LOADING THE FORUMS!!!                

PROVE IT!

[Babalonian]

[Plazus]

Youre only a little bit arrogant dude. Plazus said something silly then you grab an extract from my answer and make an even sillyer statement. Would be nice if you could think it through before you make a post like that one.

Sure my statement was a little silly, given the way that I put it. But I still stand by my words: all of you Luft fans get so worked up over 25 pounds of extra weight and nerd rage over how making flight model revisions would significantly improve performance- thus making that Luftwaffe aircraft more competent against the more "superior" Allied rides. But we all know that this assumption isn't really true, so this begs the question, "Is it really the Luftwaffe pilots in game that suck"?

[Guppy35]

ok akak you da man, your statements are nonsense again

-the zeek is far more maneuverable then the 109f.  who cares, the 109f is 50+mph faster than the 1941 zeeks   spit5? still 20mph+ advantage and could keep up in turning for a while     p38g?  f4f?  p40s? mig3? you kidding?  
-ya also the dora or 190a5 could catch the 262 in a dive  sidenote: if they had moe than 10k alt advantage     show me any other 530mph ride from 1944 plz.
The germans had the best planes in '41-42 and in '44-45   while they had numbers in the mid-war, the lack of the mass-production and new pilots made the uber late war rides near useless

hmm   Hartmann scored his kills on the eastern front    same with Nowi   Krupinsky    etc etc   of course they had a harder job since the russians had three times more aircraft then them...  come on. Still: la5=g15  la7=k4

Youre only a little bit arrogant dude. Plazus said something silly then you grab an extract from my answer and make an even sillyer statement. Would be nice if you could think it through before you make a post like that one.

Actually debrody, while out numbered on the Eastern Front, the LW were still the hunters not the hunted as they were on the Western Front.  The Russians were focused much more on ground attack and down low.  Think of it like the Western Desert.  The RAF with all those 40s etc were still the hunted for a long time as they were ground attack and the 109s were interceptors.

In terms of air combat I think it's safe to say the LW pilots who served on both fronts would agree that it was harder on the Western Front.

[FLOTSOM]

Debrody,

from one Muppet to another i will tell you, AKAK knows what he knows, period. i have read hundreds of his posts, when he posts he always posts from conviction. Now i will say that in 95% or more of his posts i have found truth and logic, and when researched most of his answers are dead on target. but once in a while, especially when it involves opinion and personal interpretation of factual analysis, he will stick to his guns no matter what you say or show to support your claims.

the argument you are having with AKAK is in the end mostly based upon opinion and preference, who was the better pilots, which rides really out performed what, which theater of operations should be counted as tougher and should carry more uberness points....ect ect. the war went as it went, there were good and great of both rides and riders on all sides.

AKAK is a great wealth of knowledge, just dont ever get into an opinional pizzing match with him.

the topic is the accuracy of the currently modeled A8..........can we get back to that?

[nrshida]

-in the BoB the poor leadership decided the battle, not the planes.

  <Cough> The skill and bravery of all those young men who fought and died in the skies above their own country defending it against an invasion from a fascist regime in arguably the last moral war of the previous century also had something to do with it. 

Careful young man, or I'll tell the whole Aces High community which manufacturer's engine was used to power the first model of Willy's Bf109 

[Debrody]

ok ok i give it up 
btw i never got an extract from his posts and took deep conclusions about it. Also never said "the 38 is a piece of crap and inferior to the garman rides". I respect everyones knowledge but i think in this case his ego played the key role in his posts. Here, now, i apologize for being a bit rude.

Shida,
i never questioned noones bravery. Nor the brits, polaks, french, or anyone. We can say: the civil population won the BoB, the spitfire won it, the brave young lads, the radar, the poor german leadership etc etc
The truth is: all together.

end of hijack

[Shuffler]

This can't end here. Do you think they'll add the 35 lbs to the bird or leave it like it is.

[CAP1]

This can't end here. Do you think they'll add the 35 lbs to the bird or leave it like it is.

 if they corrected it to what the general consensus thinks it should be, it would take less than 1 day for someone to find fault with what they did.

[gyrene81]

This can't end here. Do you think they'll add the 35 lbs to the bird or leave it like it is.

don't you mean remove? it's heavy unless someone wants to claim the winter equipment is actually part of the ah model.

[nrshida]

Shida,
i never questioned noones bravery. Nor the brits, polaks, french, or anyone. We can say: the civil population won the BoB, the spitfire won it, the brave young lads, the radar, the poor german leadership etc etc
The truth is: all together.

end of hijack

Please understand that while a discussion of plane specifications and performance is interesting at an abstract level and whilst it pertains to our shared hobby, the Battle of Britain is universally considered to be a battle of good versus evil. I won't have any implication that there was anything noble about Germany's activities during this period of history. The Luftwaffe aircrews were professionals no doubt but remember who they were hired by and what their mission was (and I don't mean militaristically).

Regarding the 190 series, this is just a suggestion, but maybe instead of disputing the weights etc endlessly, why doesn't someone suggest a useful intermediate model that HTC could produce using the current 3d and damage models, in the same way that they did with the recent P-47 variants. If you did all the work and presented it with references perhaps Mr HiTech would be more receptive to considering the inclusion of some more subtypes.

[Stoney]

Regarding the 190 series, this is just a suggestion, but maybe instead of disputing the weights etc endlessly, why doesn't someone suggest a useful intermediate model that HTC could produce using the current 3d and damage models, in the same way that they did with the recent P-47 variants.

My whole point on this is that HTC has had plenty of time to study the FW190A8 issue, and they've decided (it seems) that the weight of the aircraft is fine.  Giving them the benefit of the doubt, the important question is why.  Obviously, despite all the documentation the players have found, they still have a good reason to keep it the way it is.  Given their willingness to make changes in the past, when errors or omissions have been found, don't you think its conspicuous that they haven't made a change yet?  That means that they are in possession of some sort of material that they feel justifies the weight as currently modeled.  Perhaps, instead of the semi-annual "fix the weight" thread, some energy could be made towards finding out whatever it is they have.  It must exist out there for someone who really wants to find it...