FW-190D9 vs Spitfire MK XVI roll rates

[Guppy35]

so in during the end of the war, they tuned the engines for lower fights correct? but, if that holds true then is it modeled into the game? i did some testing at 10, 15 and 5k with the roll rates. i have to say that at 5k the spit16 rolled just as good as the 190 down there, and at 10 and 15k the 190 had the clear advantage. i tested the spit9 and spit5 turning capabilities, and i have to say that there fairly equal, but the spit5 turns just a bit better. (maybe thats just me)



EDIT: forgot to mention this earlier, would the 190A5 be outrolled by a Spit16? and also, does torque from the engine affect rolling?

The primary Merlin engines used in Spitfires were tuned for lower alts.  The majority of Spitfire IX and XVI had Merlin 66 or 266 engines.  The 66 was Rolls Royce built.  The Merlin 266 was license built in the US by Packard.

Spit 16s would not have encountered 190A5s.  The clipping of the Spitfire V and others was done to counter the roll rate of the early 190s encountered by the Spits, in particular as the airwar moved down in alt in late 42-43.

[skorpion]

The primary Merlin engines used in Spitfires were tuned for lower alts.  The majority of Spitfire IX and XVI had Merlin 66 or 266 engines.  The 66 was Rolls Royce built.  The Merlin 266 was license built in the US by Packard.

Ok I that written down. So is this actually modeled into the game though? I've had some very unrealalistic fights up at 20k against 190's and 109's. If the spitfires were tuned for lower altitudes IRL then my question is it modeled correctly in game?

[Guppy35]

Ok I that written down. So is this actually modeled into the game though? I've had some very unrealalistic fights up at 20k against 190's and 109's. If the spitfires were tuned for lower altitudes IRL then my question is it modeled correctly in game?

Keep in mind what 'lower means.  The Merlin 61 engined IX was geared for higher then that.  The Merlin 66/266 best height was 15k-25K.   Prior to 1942 the fights were taking place above 25K.  For some reason, probably because the medium bombers of the RAF flew 15-20K, the fights dropped down.  And in 44 after the invasion, the tactical airwar took over and the fights were even lower.

[Guppy35]

Skorpion, here is an example of what we're talking about.  I found this quicker so it's a Spitfire V, but it's the same idea as the differences between the FIX and LFXVI or LFIX

Note the performance of the Spitfire FVb.  It has better performance higher as the engine was built to perform best at those altitudes.  Keep in mind this is the Spitfire Vb we have in game.



This is a Spitfire LFVb.  The LF being the designation for Spitfires with engines rated for lower alt performance.  It's identical on the outside to a Spitfire FVb.  You wouldn't note any difference when you sae one in the air.  But note the performance at different altitudes for this Spitfire Vb with the engine built to perform better lower.

Take two identical on the outside Spits and let them fight and the FVb wins up high and the LFVb wins down low.

[Stoney]

i did some testing at 10, 15 and 5k with the roll rates. i have to say that at 5k the spit16 rolled just as good as the 190 down there, and at 10 and 15k the 190 had the clear advantage.

If you do comparison testing, you need to use a stopwatch and record roll times.  That's the only way to truly gauge what the exact relative performance is.  You also need to test them at different entry speeds--250, 275, 300, 325, etc. because some planes rolled faster, comparatively speaking, at lower/higher speeds than others.  For example, a 190 might roll faster than a Spit 16 at 250 and slower at 350 (don't know, just an example).

[BaldEagl]

Not to enter into the aerodynamics conversation but to answer the OP since I fly Spit XVI's and FW190A-8's as two of my three primary MA rides (along with the F6F-5) the 190's roll considerably better then the XVI and that trait becomes greater and greater as speeds increase.

The 190's can dive and remain controllable with little loss of roll rate at almost 600 mph while the XVI can rip the wings off under sudden manouvers over 480 mph although it can be pushed further if you're smooth on the controls.

Diving or rolling?  Well, that might depend on the situation.  Even in a dive the XVI will out accelerate a 190.  If you do manage to dive away from the XVI, unless you're in a Dora, the XVI will eventually run you back down using WEP and manageing his dive angle.  In the end you're probably best off to keep the fight fast and use roll rate to work for a shot or an overshoot.

[MiloMorai]

[Babalonian]

(Image removed from quote.)

Mmmm, good soup.


So, how often does spit get into a rolling battle with a FW-190 at slower than 220 mph?