New P-40 opinions on flight model and performance

[Owlblink]

Hello all,

   I've been out of game for a month and a half and have seen a lot of changes. I noticed they've just finished out the P-40 line and would like to read about the digital p-40 pilot's opinions on the changes (along with others who've taken it out for a spin since the changes) .

What do you gentleman think?
Which is your favorite of the new P-40's, and why?
 

[Plazus]

Right now the P40s feel more like a lead sled than before the flight model revisions. Altitude and energy management is going to be more critical than ever to survive in the P40s. Has a tendency to break apart at speeds over 450 mph. There is also an issue with flaps not deploying when they are supposed to (particularly depending on the plane's angle of attack). Other than that, they look good and feel good. Just a few things that need to be ironed out.

[gyrene81]

what speed are you saying flaps are supposed to deploy plazus? below 140 doesn't sound quite right but...i haven't found anything where 200+ is accurate either.

they are fragile in a dive for sure...

[Plazus]

If I am not mistaken, flaps are supposed to deploy below speeds of 140 mph. However, they don't always deploy as it seems that the plane's angle of attack affects whether or not it deploys. In other words, flaps don't always deploy when they should.

[Owlblink]

If I am not mistaken, flaps are supposed to deploy below speeds of 140 mph. However, they don't always deploy as it seems that the plane's angle of attack affects whether or not it deploys. In other words, flaps don't always deploy when they should.

I noticed this in the N model tonight in the TA and while in the DA. several times, the flaps would not come out till I was below 100 while turning left with my WEP on. I tried turning right and the same issue happened in one perticular sorty.

Otherwise, I've noticed that they can be very very tricky to snaproll with. I had several near fatal stalls that the normal recovery methods for didn't want to work (pronounced in the N model most of all). Seems that you have to counter the snap, when going left, just as soon as you start it. Right is more stable, but of course much slower. Might also just be me being out of practice, but it felt harder to control the snaps in the P40's than it is in a 109K

[pangea]

I noticed this in the N model tonight in the TA and while in the DA. several times, the flaps would not come out till I was below 100 while turning left with my WEP on. I tried turning right and the same issue happened in one perticular sorty.

Otherwise, I've noticed that they can be very very tricky to snaproll with. I had several near fatal stalls that the normal recovery methods for didn't want to work (pronounced in the N model most of all). Seems that you have to counter the snap, when going left, just as soon as you start it. Right is more stable, but of course much slower. Might also just be me being out of practice, but it felt harder to control the snaps in the P40's than it is in a 109K

I experienced this snaproll/stall issue as well in the N.  I saddled up on a P47, tried to follow as he broke left and I went into a spin.  This happened to me twice.  Barely recovered the first time, did not recover the second time as I was too low.  I was a little heavy with fuel which probably didn't help.

[SmokinLoon]

what speed are you saying flaps are supposed to deploy plazus? below 140 doesn't sound quite right but...i haven't found anything where 200+ is accurate either.

they are fragile in a dive for sure...

Fragile only in comparison to the previous models.  They can still handle 500 TAS in a dive easy enough.  I lost elevators are 540mph-ish and wings soon there-after on the F model.  Not many can hang with it.

As far as flaps are concerned, I've read a few different account of 'high speed" deployment, but the exact speed was not mentioned.  I'm sure it is all contingent on the amount of resistance the flaps have when trying to deploy.   

[Raptor05121]

-40N > -40F

[Ardy123]

All I can say, is wow, I feel sorry for pilots who had to fight with the p40s. Compared to a 109f4/g2 or a 190a5, or a zero or a ki61, its a overweight brick...

[bustr]

If the flaps are now modeled to how flaps worked on P40's in WW2. What is the problem? Possibly that in this game we fly our rides like airshow aerobatic rides in 1v1 jousts rather than how they were flown in WW2.

How were P40's flown in WW2 by the those who survived the war with bombing missions and air to air kills to their names? Are you complaining that the aircraft is now too authentic or that your strategies in the aircraft up to now relied too much on flap deployment at critical junctures? I seem to remember that the P40's single best air to air manuver was to be higher than the con and leave the area while making a high speed firing pass.

Does anyone have P40 pilots manuals to look up the flap deployment section?

[bustr]

RAF tech bulliten data on the P40.

http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/p40_data.htm

[Ardy123]

If the flaps are now modeled to how flaps worked on P40's in WW2. What is the problem? Possibly that in this game we fly our rides like airshow aerobatic rides in 1v1 jousts rather than how they were flown in WW2.

Oh, I'm not complaining, I appreciate that they went to make it more realistic.

How were P40's flown in WW2 by the those who survived the war with bombing missions and air to air kills to their names? Are you complaining that the aircraft is now too authentic or that your strategies in the aircraft up to now relied too much on flap deployment at critical junctures? I seem to remember that the P40's single best air to air manuver was to be higher than the con and leave the area while making a high speed firing pass.

I'm not complaining at all, I have a new found appreciation for people who were successful in one.

I understand in RL, the tactics were hit and run, but it isn't fast, it just dives well. So I guess that really means they had 1 or 2 passes and then they left (if they could). Also, if an enemy arrived above them, well, they were screwed (the 190a5 can dive well too and is much faster in level flight). Furthermore, they have very poor high alt performance, so high for it is like 15-18k.

EDIT: it looks like in field mods, many upped the boost to 70" Hg!..http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/Allison%201710-39%20abuse.pdf

[Plazus]

RAF tech bulliten data on the P40.

http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/p40_data.htm

bustr,

The document confirms my statement that flaps should be deployed at no higher than 140 mph IAS. The problem is that in game, the flaps don't always deploy below 140 mph as they are supposed to. It appears that if your P40 was flying at a certain angle of attack, or if your are pulling a certain number of Gs, the flaps will not deploy- even if you are under 140 mph. The question is "Why are they not deploying when they are supposed to?". Are the flaps meant to only be deployed under special circumstances? Or is it a bug in the game?

[Ardy123]

It appears that if your P40 was flying at a certain angle of attack,

I noticed that when I flew it off line, above a certain angle of attack, or g-loading (not sure) they don't deploy.

[cactuskooler]

I'm not complaining at all, I have a new found appreciation for people who were successful in one.

I understand in RL, the tactics were hit and run, but it isn't fast, it just dives well. So I guess that really means they had 1 or 2 passes and then they left (if they could). Also, if an enemy arrived above them, well, they were screwed (the 190a5 can dive well too and is much faster in level flight). Furthermore, they have very poor high alt performance, so high for it is like 15-18k.

That's partly why I chose Dick West's plane for the default P-40N skin. He was a truly fantastic pilot scoring six victories in the P-40N, then a further eight flying P-38s. On November 15 1943 he was credited with destroying four Japanese planes in a single sortie, plus two probables, making him the first ace in the 35th FS. He even brought home some ammo as well. That's a real feat in any plane much less a P-40.