Author Topic: Information on the M18. Just an FYI-  (Read 1281 times)

Offline 321BAR

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Re: Information on the M18. Just an FYI-
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2011, 09:40:49 AM »
More than half the HVAP manufactured was for the 3" gun in the M-10. The rest was 76mm and some 90mm. The 76mm was pretty evenly distributed between M-4s and M-18s.

At any rate, tungsten used for the core was so rare that the rate of distribution was around one round per tank per month.


wrongway
id take that round...

and wrongway the 3" gun on the M-10 is the same ammunition used in the 76.2mm M1A1 cannon. The difference being the M7 3" cannon was older and heavier than the newer lighter M1. So this info you said is starting to confuse me when the M7 and the M1A1 used the same ammo...
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Information on the M18. Just an FYI-
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2011, 12:30:22 PM »
id take that round...

and wrongway the 3" gun on the M-10 is the same ammunition used in the 76.2mm M1A1 cannon. The difference being the M7 3" cannon was older and heavier than the newer lighter M1. So this info you said is starting to confuse me when the M7 and the M1A1 used the same ammo...

Same projectile, different propellant casing.

Couldn't find a pic comparing the two.


wrongway
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Information on the M18. Just an FYI-
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2011, 07:56:17 PM »
Same projectile, different propellant casing.

Couldn't find a pic comparing the two.


wrongway

I'd like to see those specifications.  So is what I am gathering from you, wrongway, is that they are indeed 2 different cartridges and are not interchangeable??? 
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Information on the M18. Just an FYI-
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2011, 09:53:59 PM »
I'd like to see those specifications.  So is what I am gathering from you, wrongway, is that they are indeed 2 different cartridges and are not interchangeable??? 

I always thought there was a slight difference.  Ian Hogg's books are my sources....if only I could find them....

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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Information on the M18. Just an FYI-
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2011, 08:49:01 AM »
I always thought there was a slight difference.  Ian Hogg's books are my sources....if only I could find them....

- oldman

Slight difference being the difference between .223 Remington vs 5.56 NATO (yes, there is a difference), or .223 Remington vs .222 Remington (completely different case)? 

Regardless, it isnt that big of deal really.  The projectiles are the same, the velocities are the same, and the AP capabilities are the same. 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Information on the M18. Just an FYI-
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2011, 05:17:02 PM »
I'd like to see those specifications.  So is what I am gathering from you, wrongway, is that they are indeed 2 different cartridges and are not interchangeable??? 

I've searched the intardnet and cannot find specifications.

My only references are the Osprey Books on the M10 and M36 and M18 Hellcat, both by Steven J. Zaloga.

From M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers 1942-53 p.18:

Quote
During development of the rival M18 76mm GMC, Ordinance designed a new, lighter-weight 76mm gun better suited for use in tanks or tank destroyers. Tj=his gun fired the same projectile as the 3-inch gun, but was labeled as a 76mm gun since it used a different ammunition type with a new propellant casing that would not fit in the 3-inch gun,....

Pp.34-35 RE: HVAP ammo:

Quote
In September 1944, ETOUSA headquarters cabled back to the United States that they needed 43,000 rounds split evenly between 3-inch and 76mm guns, by January 1945, and 10,000 rounds monthly after that. However, tungsten was in such short supply that through early March 1945, only about 18,000 rounds arrived in Europe, including about 10,500 rounds for the M10 tank destroyers.

From M18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer 1943-97 Pp.23-24:

RE: HVAP production order as above:

Quote
The production was to be equally divided between 76mm and 3-inch, the latter for the M10 3-in. tank destroyer.


RE: HVAP distribution:

Quote
By early march 1945, a total of about 18,000 rounds of HVAP had been delivered to the ETO of which about 7,550 were 76mm rounds (42 percent) and the rest 3-in. ammunition for the M10 tank destroyers.

Essentially, since both books are by the same author, probably using the same research, it is only one source.



wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay