P-63 Kingcobra

[Devonai]

+1

I'd sell my grandmother to the Cossacks for this plane.

You monster! 

[DMVIAGRA]

Bump 

[The Fugitive]

bumping is not allowed, especially on a thread that is barely a day old. What do you expect to happen? They going to add a cobra over night? 

[DMVIAGRA]

bumping is not allowed, especially on a thread that is barely a day old. What do you expect to happen? They going to add a cobra over night? 

You think I'm another 321Bar don't you? Also no I do not think they'll add it to the game over night, I just want a good debate over the P-63. It would be nice to have though quite honestly. Oh surprise me with a cartoon, it'd be nice. 

[kilo2]

bumping is not allowed, especially on a thread that is barely a day old.

Backseat modding isn't either.



 

[Guppy35]

Not sure if you were involved in the last KingCobra discussion in the Wishlist Forum.  It was a decent one.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,309472.0.html

[Raptor05121]

This sounds pretty damned interesting. Possibly a low- ENY

[Angus]

It is not a P-39 with a touch-up as I thought, but a new aircraft with the same idea.
AFAIK it did score kills with the Russians, and therefore meets the AH criteria.
From Wiki:
n the Pacific theatre, the Kingcobras flew escort, close air support and ground attack missions. The Soviet P-63s achieved their first air victory on 15 August 1945, when Lejtenant I. F. Miroshnichenko from 17th IAP/190 IAD, shot down a Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa Army fighter off the coast of North Korea
so,,,,,,

[Tyrannis]

It is not a P-39 with a touch-up as I thought, but a new aircraft with the same idea.
AFAIK it did score kills with the Russians, and therefore meets the AH criteria.
From Wiki:
n the Pacific theatre, the Kingcobras flew escort, close air support and ground attack missions. The Soviet P-63s achieved their first air victory on 15 August 1945, when Lejtenant I. F. Miroshnichenko from 17th IAP/190 IAD, shot down a Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa Army fighter off the coast of North Korea
so,,,,,,

You'll find that most around here do not take Wiki as an accurate enough source to confirm something. You'll need to find a better source thats more reliable in the boards (and HTC's) eyes.

[Vinkman]

+1 of course. Would love to have this plane. 

Spend a lot of time in the P-39. For late war it's underpowered and under wing-ed. The P-63 turns better, clibs better, and goes faster. Just what's needed to make it competitive in Late War. I don't think this plane would end up Perked or even with a low ENY value because the gun package, while challenging and fun, is not effective compared to 6 .50, and mutiple 20mm gun packages. The K4 which is faster, climbs better, and has a more effective gun package is a 20 ENY plane. Many have made a good case for the K4 being a 15 ENY plane, but I see the Kingcobra as a 20+ ENY plane.

[oboe]

+1 of course. Would love to have this plane. 

Spend a lot of time in the P-39. For late war it's underpowered and under wing-ed. The P-63 turns better, clibs better, and goes faster. Just what's needed to make it competitive in Late War. I don't think this plane would end up Perked or even with a low ENY value because the gun package, while challenging and fun, is not effective compared to 6 .50, and mutiple 20mm gun packages. The K4 which is faster, climbs better, and has a more effective gun package is a 20 ENY plane. Many have made a good case for the K4 being a 15 ENY plane, but I see the Kingcobra as a 20+ ENY plane.

qft.

   

[alpini13]

i believe the usa had the p-63 in inventory on mainland usa...and was floen here....and....shot down a japanese  bomb balloon during the war.  i believe there are also some reports of p-63...notm  p-39 being shot down by the luftwaffe....dosent ground attack constitute combat?

[Vinkman]

i believe the usa had the p-63 in inventory on mainland usa...and was floen here....and....shot down a japanese  bomb balloon during the war.  i believe there are also some reports of p-63...notm  p-39 being shot down by the luftwaffe....dosent ground attack constitute combat?

Reports of P-63s in combat in Europe have been investigated and discussed by the group in some detail. It seems that P-63 were being shipped to western front units but very late in the war. One account I read in Porkryshkin's [sp?] memoir states that P-63s were arriving in April of 45. While it states they were with the unit, it makes no mention of anyone using them.  With the time it would take to get trained in the new plane and combat ready it's doubtful that traceable, significant combat experience against the germans was recorded. Is it possible a P-63 flew in the vacinity of german combat troops...sure. But it's doubtful a combat record of any official validity was ever recorded onthe western front. None have been identified so far. But many keep looking  

On another note, Yes the P-63 was slated for units deploying to D-day. But production planes weren't being delivered in significant numbers until Dec 1943/Jan 1944. This is 6 months before D-day and it was thought that converted units would not have enough to train in the plane before the invasion. The Russians still hungry for planes, and already familiar with the very similar P-39, and with Bell, hence they became the more appropriate customers.

The question for me becomes why did it take 12 months for Planes to get from the Buffalo production facility to units fighting the Germans?

More research needed.  

[Tyrannis]

http://p63kingcobra.com/p-63_kingcobra_battles.html
The Soviet air cover and support for the Shimushu landings were provided by the 128 SAD, their 888 IAP had the P-63 Kingcobra, which they had received only in August 1945, before that they remained the last active Soviet fighter regiment with the I-16. The 410 ShAP, also of the same division also had converted to the P-63, in their case from the Il-2 (It is uncertain but possible that they may have been redesignated as 410 IAP.). The third regiment in the division flew a mixture of A-20 and SB bombers, and a few PV-1s which had been interned prior to August 1945. The naval torpedo bomber unit was the 2 MTAD (division), consisting of the 4 MTAP (Il-4 & DB-3), 49 MTAP (Il-4, A-20G, & A-20H), & 52 MTAP (DB-3).
Also.
http://p63kingcobra.com/french_p63_kingcobras.html
It is generally accepted that 300 Bell P-63c King Cobras were supplied to the French, some sources suggest that they saw action for a brief period defending the docks of Le Harve during late 1944. However I have not personally yet seen any actual evidence of this to date and would be very keen to hear from anyone with additional information. I am sure somewhere out there is a pilot who can confirm one way or another.
http://p63kingcobra.com/p-63_kingcobra_history.html
One other E series aircraft served as the XP-63H, powered by a turbo compound V-1710-127 engine, which had not only the two-stage supercharger but an exhaust driven gas turbine which fed power mechanically back to the engine. At 29,000 feet, this engine still delivered 1,550 horsepower, and at low altitudes, with special fuel, its output was an amazing 2,900 horsepower. How then did the Kingcobra perform in combat with the U.S. Army Air Forces? It didn’t  - the only American use of the P-63’s as fighters were a few hundred employed as transition trainers in Advanced Training Units. Most, about 2,397, Kingcobras were provided to the Soviet Union under Lend-Lease, ferried by the U.S. and Soviet Pilots via the Alaska Siberia Route. As with the P-39, the Soviets used the P-63’s 37mm cannon for attacks on tanks and other armoured targets and seemed to have good luck with them in air-to-air combat. However few details have been published about the P-63’s combat role in the Soviet Union. It is believed by some sources that an unknown number of the P-63’s supplied by the U.S. were secretly transferred to the Russian front contravening the Lend-Lease agreement and thus seeing combat with the German’s, however no evidence has yet come forward to support this claim. What is known is the P-63 did see combat in the Far East during the brief but fierce fighting that took place when Russia declared war on Japan shortly after and taking advantage of the dropping of the first atom bomb on Hiroshima on August 6th 1945. This conflict became known to the Soviets as Operation Autumn Storm, very little archive information exists about these missions, but it is known that these battles extended beyond the official surrender of Japan which took place on board U.S. battleship Missouri on September 2nd 1945. It is a common misconception that some historians make stating that the last battles of World War Two were fought at Iwo Jima, whilst this might be true when referring the U.S. involvement in the war what is often overlooked was that the Russian’s were still carrying out Operation Autumn Storm well after the last battles of Iwo Jima had finally ended. The P-63’C’s deployed during these operations in the Kuril Islands can surely claim the last combat of World War Two undertaken by any American built aircraft.

[Vinkman]

http://p63kingcobra.com/p-63_kingcobra_battles.html
The Soviet air cover and support for the Shimushu landings were provided by the 128 SAD, their 888 IAP had the P-63 Kingcobra, which they had received only in August 1945, before that they remained the last active Soviet fighter regiment with the I-16. The 410 ShAP, also of the same division also had converted to the P-63, in their case from the Il-2 (It is uncertain but possible that they may have been redesignated as 410 IAP.). The third regiment in the division flew a mixture of A-20 and SB bombers, and a few PV-1s which had been interned prior to August 1945. The naval torpedo bomber unit was the 2 MTAD (division), consisting of the 4 MTAP (Il-4 & DB-3), 49 MTAP (Il-4, A-20G, & A-20H), & 52 MTAP (DB-3).
Also.
http://p63kingcobra.com/french_p63_kingcobras.html
It is generally accepted that 300 Bell P-63c King Cobras were supplied to the French, some sources suggest that they saw action for a brief period defending the docks of Le Harve during late 1944. However I have not personally yet seen any actual evidence of this to date and would be very keen to hear from anyone with additional information. I am sure somewhere out there is a pilot who can confirm one way or another.
http://p63kingcobra.com/p-63_kingcobra_history.html


One other E series aircraft served as the XP-63H, powered by a turbo compound V-1710-127 engine, which had not only the two-stage supercharger but an exhaust driven gas turbine which fed power mechanically back to the engine. At 29,000 feet, this engine still delivered 1,550 horsepower, and at low altitudes, with special fuel, its output was an amazing 2,900 horsepower. How then did the Kingcobra perform in combat with the U.S. Army Air Forces? It didn’t  - the only American use of the P-63’s as fighters were a few hundred employed as transition trainers in Advanced Training Units. Most, about 2,397, Kingcobras were provided to the Soviet Union under Lend-Lease, ferried by the U.S. and Soviet Pilots via the Alaska Siberia Route. As with the P-39, the Soviets used the P-63’s 37mm cannon for attacks on tanks and other armoured targets and seemed to have good luck with them in air-to-air combat. However few details have been published about the P-63’s combat role in the Soviet Union. It is believed by some sources that an unknown number of the P-63’s supplied by the U.S. were secretly transferred to the Russian front contravening the Lend-Lease agreement and thus seeing combat with the German’s, however no evidence has yet come forward to support this claim. What is known is the P-63 did see combat in the Far East during the brief but fierce fighting that took place when Russia declared war on Japan shortly after and taking advantage of the dropping of the first atom bomb on Hiroshima on August 6th 1945. This conflict became known to the Soviets as Operation Autumn Storm, very little archive information exists about these missions, but it is known that these battles extended beyond the official surrender of Japan which took place on board U.S. battleship Missouri on September 2nd 1945. It is a common misconception that some historians make stating that the last battles of World War Two were fought at Iwo Jima, whilst this might be true when referring the U.S. involvement in the war what is often overlooked was that the Russian’s were still carrying out Operation Autumn Storm well after the last battles of Iwo Jima had finally ended. The P-63’C’s deployed during these operations in the Kuril Islands can surely claim the last combat of World War Two undertaken by any American built aircraft.

Tyrannis,
These have been reviewed before and have been shown to be without reference or corroberation.  It has for example been posted previously with references that the Russians didn't use the P-39 to attack tanks or ground targets. They assigned them exclusively to air superiority roles. The Russians never recieved armor piercing ammo for the 37mm. The whole myth about Russian P-39s as tank busters is a mis-translation of the russian term for "Ground support".  [which to them meant clearing the air over russian troops of enemy fighters, not attacking enemy troops on the ground.] I've posted the page perfernces in other P-63 posts. but don;t have it handy. It's from "Attack of the Airacobras"