P-63 Kingcobra

[TylerMac]

Need more King Cobra     30 rounds of 37mm just isn't enough 

[IronDog]

The 37mm made by Oldsmobile was terrible!The Russians pulled them out and put in 20mm's.The P-39 was neutered by people that had pull,and they didn't like Bell Aircraft.The P-39 could have been a much better plane if it wouldn't have hadn't the blower pulled off it,and other changes in the air frame.The P-63 with the better wings, and the best Allison1710 that was made during the war,was an entirely different plane. On the Eastern Front the air battles were fought at lower altitudes,so the "Old Iron Dog done fairly well.Most pilots liked the P-39,and they are the ones that had to deal with it's short comings.

[Vinkman]

The 37mm made by Oldsmobile was terrible!The Russians pulled them out and put in 20mm's.The P-39 was neutered by people that had pull,and they didn't like Bell Aircraft.The P-39 could have been a much better plane if it wouldn't have hadn't the blower pulled off it,and other changes in the air frame.The P-63 with the better wings, and the best Allison1710 that was made during the war,was an entirely different plane. On the Eastern Front the air battles were fought at lower altitudes,so the "Old Iron Dog done fairly well.Most pilots liked the P-39,and they are the ones that had to deal with it's short comings.

Is there a reference for the Russian cannon replacement with 20mm? Loza's book makes no mention of the Russians pulling the 37mm out of planes, or any displeasure with the weapon. The russians developed tactics that included firing at extremely close range. This may have reduced some of the problems associated with the 37mm. The book quotes pilots that loved the 37mm for it's ability to kill anything with one shot. Porkryshkin scored 50 kills in a variety of P-39 models all with 37mm cannons. the book also dispells the myth that P-39 were uses as tank busters or ground attack planes, another common rumor on the internet. The Russians coveted the planes and used them exclusively for Air-superiority roll.

The allies didn't seem to have a lot of love for the 37mm, and the P-400 british (and I believe the french) variant did replace the 37mm with a 20mm per insistance from the british.  

[Krusty]

The soviets loved big-bore cannons. They even put their own 23mm, 37mm, into their own home-grown fighters. What they removed were the wing guns and wing gunpods. They kept and mainly used the 37mm for most of their air to air kills.

The P-39s with 20mm were factory-made as P-400s for the RAF, but the RAF detested the performance and the surplus were shipped over via Lend-Lease to Russia or used in US service.

These were not field-stripped and replaced.

I know they replaced some other guns with their own, on the Hurricanes for example, but I don't think that happened on the P-39s.


P.S. Vinkman, there was nothing to "convert" -- the P-39 design was always only a fighter design. It was never an attacker (no more than the contemporary P-40B was!).

[Vinkman]

P.S. Vinkman, there was nothing to "convert" -- the P-39 design was always only a fighter design. It was never an attacker (no more than the contemporary P-40B was!).

You mis-read my mis spelling. lol

It said "covented" which you read as "converted" but was supposed to be "coveted" as in cherish and treat as highly prized.    I fixed it.

P.S. didn't know the brits shipped the 20mm equipped planes to the Russians. That's good to know.

[Krusty]

Oooh, Thanks for the typo fix.

[titan312]

I would actually like to see this bird in AH.   

[Karnak]

Given the tantrums people threw about the Meteor possibly being added.  The drama when this gets added should be at a whole new level.

[Guppy35]

Given the tantrums people threw about the Meteor possibly being added.  The drama when this gets added should be at a whole new level.

Not nearly as much for the 63.  At least it has one of those spinney things on the front

[Karnak]

Not nearly as much for the 63.  At least it has one of those spinney things on the front

A lot of the arguments against the Meteor were claims that it would lower the bar as to what was a valid addition.  While that was not really true of the Meteor, it is not clear that it is not true of the P-63.

[Vinkman]

Given the tantrums people threw about the Meteor possibly being added.  The drama when this gets added should be at a whole new level.

Tantrums about the meteor were because A) it wasn't their favorite plane. B) because some felt another Jet would adversely affect MA game play. The "it never saw a lot of action" comments are a way to try to disqualify it because telling folks the plane they want is bad for the gam,e is too tough a job.

No offense, but mutch the way you find every P-63 thread and keep harping on the insignificant combat record, because you want the Ki-43 so bad!  

The "saw combat" clause helps weed out 3rd generation planes that weren't manufactured in time to see action, F8F, F7F, P-82, etc. Those planes meet the first two criteria but never saw combat.

The P-63 is unique because it is a 2nd generation plane signed off for delivery in 1943, and was delivered in the thousands a year and half before the end of the war. It was stationed in eastern Russia for use against the Japanese. If units are trained and flying the planes around for a year, petrolling the airspace bordering an enemy country during the war, it seems like a technicality to say it didn't see combat. It is also unique in that it may well have been the best V12 powered all american fighter of the war, and 2,700 of them were deployed. That has some significance.

But mostly it's a nice fit for the prop driven late war MA. Fun, Unique, capable, but not a game changer in anyway. Many of the other planes being asked for...Ki-43, aren't very unique. They are very significant, but not very unique, and so they don't add much to game play. They do add a lot to scenarios. 

 The ki-43, yak3 are really repeats . The Me-410, the Pe-2, P-63..perhpas others add something new, without being game changers.  

[Guppy35]

Ki-43 is the most visible omission in the game that I can see as it was the Japanese Army fighter from beginning to end.  They didn't fly Zekes.  To do any accurate PTO/CBI event you need Ki-43s.  That includes that final bit where the 63 actually fired it's guns in action for the Russians in that short offensive against the Japanese.

[Vinkman]

Ki-43 is the most visible omission in the game that I can see as it was the Japanese Army fighter from beginning to end.  They didn't fly Zekes.  To do any accurate PTO/CBI event you need Ki-43s.  That includes that final bit where the 63 actually fired it's guns in action for the Russians in that short offensive against the Japanese.

Yes conclusive proof would nice to show once-and-for-all it meets HiTech's criteria. HTC has shown that if there's pull in the community they are willing to offer it up if it meets the criteria. I think there is quite a bit of pull for the Kingcobra. Not as much as other planes but enough to start making future polls. Superfly mentioned that the P-63 was being considered when the P-39 was complete, but at that time it decided not to do it. Whether that means it met the criteria to HiTech's satisfaction, but othe planes wre more worthwhile to develop first, or whether it didn't qualify is unknown to me.

[Guppy35]

I'm of the belief now, having read a bit about that last Russian Offensive against Japan, that the 63 most definitely got shot at and did fly combat.  I don't know that we'll ever know for sure whether the one claim was an actual 'kill', but I don't question that it fired it's guns in anger.

I would fly the 63 if for no other reason then it was a 63 that was the first warbird I ever saw up close and flying.

[Karnak]

How is the P-63 any more "unique" than the Ki-43?